Pentakill Olaf oversexualizes the male gender

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Jynetik

Junior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBeckham View Post
So a bunch of male posters are pretending to be offended in a single instance in order to make fun of people who think female characters are over sexualized across the board.

"See!", they decry, "I'm a male and i'm not offended, so if women are offended then they must be stupid!".

Charming.

I'm blown by how you folks, pretty much all male (myself included), can't perceive your own bias, so you shrug and laugh at what you won't take the time to try and understand.

Ezreal, Gragas, Olaf. Name any three adult human female characters who vary so widely in size, shape and proportion. You can't. That's because all of the female characters are like Barbie Dolls - the same shape with different color hair and clothes. This is the argument; women should be portrayed as diversely as male characters are. It wouldn't kill anyone to have a "cool" female character devoid of the tag "*** godess" once in a great while.

Instead, we get Reds endorsing that it's fine to have diverse males and cloned females. Video games have a bad rep for defining females by their *** appeal first and foremost in attempt to bait in more male gamers. It sets a negative standard that pushes away females and makes us look like a bunch of high fiving mouth breathers too stoked on their own egos than to welcome the opposite *** into our world. Get out of your bubble.

Saw this post getting quoted a lot, and miss-interpreted quite a bit. I bolded the part that I felt was important. I really don't have a dog in this fight I just wanted to clear this up. Included in the link below is a comparison image I just made of all of the adult human characters in the league of legends.

I made special care to not include any characters that might skew the comparison, for this reason there are characters that were omitted because they were only half human (shyvana) characters that were fuzed with some kind of elemental or dark forces that changed their appearance (brand, kassadin, varus), characters that look human-like but aren't human (Morgana, Kayle) etc...

I honestly don't see anything real solid from this comparison personally, it looks like the lineup of human male characters are just about as copy-paste as the female characters. There are some interesting differences, for instance there are no old or fat female characters. Not a whole lot other than that.

http://imageshack.us/a/img40/1937/lo...comparison.png

I hope this helps to clear things up and put this debate to rest.

*Edit 1* I just noticed that I forgot to include Tryndamere on my comparison image... oops.

*Edit 2* Fixed it.


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Mousekime

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynetik View Post
Saw this post getting quoted a lot, and miss-interpreted quite a bit. I bolded the part that I felt was important. I really don't have a dog in this fight I just wanted to clear this up. Included in the link below is a comparison image I just made of all of the adult human characters in the league of legends.

I made special care to not include any characters that might skew the comparison, for this reason there are characters that were omitted because they were only half human (shyvana) characters that were fuzed with some kind of elemental or dark forces that changed their appearance (brand, kassadin, varus), characters that look human-like but aren't human (Morgana, Kayle) etc...

I honestly don't see anything real solid from this comparison personally, it looks like the lineup of human male characters are just about as copy-paste as the female characters. There are some interesting differences, for instance there are no old or fat female characters. Not a whole lot other than that.

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/1937/l...comparison.png

I hope this helps to clear things up and put this debate to rest.
Finally someone puts it in a way that can't be denied/misinterpreted the only ones that aren't really copy paste for the male cast are ezreal gragas and swain...


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Leiralei

Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by xHYPERBEAMx View Post
yes riot this is degrading and I will not stand for your unrealistically hot dude champions who make me feel inadequate
Hot dude champions? Where?

Only one I saw was the visual upgrade for Twisted Fate.


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Zega000

Member

10-03-2012

His nipples boast an unrealistic standard of a male chest that us average joes can not live up to


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Imalia

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soµl Reaver View Post
The true point of this thread is:
"This isn't about rights or media, just let them make some eye candy, we like to stare at pleasant things when we play a game for 10hours a day and there's nothing wrong with that"
My viewpoint on this isn't particularly militant. I love eye candy. More of it for both sides. But the male champions get all the cool eye candy and the female champions all kind of look samey to an extent because they all tend to share the same bodytype and very similar poses if they're not children, yordles or nonhuman. I think that's a real big issue and it's why I want them to start experimenting with some different eye candy, that's all. Not every splash pose needs to show that ample badonkadonk. Sometimes implying it is more sexy than actually showing it. Likewise for the revealing skin. A pretty face is prettier when you have to use your imagination to fantasize about what's down below. IMAGINATION? That's a pretty Reading Rainbow moment there. We don't need none of that, right? Be crass all day long.


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Imalia

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynetik View Post

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/1937/l...comparison.png

I hope this helps to clear things up and put this debate to rest.
This is interesting, though I wonder how things would change if you included all of the skins that each champion has in that lineup. Would the samey-ness still be roughly even on both sides? My observation is that the male champions often get cool or funny ideas and the female champions often get put in sexy outfits or at least outfits with a lot of convenient holes in them.


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Jynetik

Junior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imalia View Post
This is interesting, though I wonder how things would change if you included all of the skins that each champion has in that lineup. Would the samey-ness still be roughly even on both sides?
Yeah dealing with skins is something I had to think about. In the end I decided on just the default skin because that is how the champion is introduced to us players, it is the most common way we see those champions, and it is how the champion is displayed for marketing purposes by RIOT.

A simple truth when it comes to skins is that the "sexy" costumes are almost exclusively female, maid outfits, playboy bunny outfits, etc... Not really unexpected or surprising. While I don't doubt that players would buy playboy bunny Gragas in droves due to the novelty of it sexy costumes for female characters is a given in an environment like this. This again is why I wanted to focus on just the default skins. With the default skins you get the character's "normal" outfit that they wear in the world, you get an accurate lore tie-in and the outfits tend to be played straight since they are not there as a joke or an accent for the character.


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Imalia

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynetik View Post
Yeah dealing with skins is something I had to think about. In the end I decided on just the default skin because that is how the champion is introduced to us players, it is the most common way we see those champions, and it is how the champion is displayed for marketing purposes by RIOT.

A simple truth when it comes to skins is that the "sexy" costumes are almost exclusively female, maid outfits, playboy bunny outfits, etc... Not really unexpected or surprising. While I don't doubt that players would buy playboy bunny Gragas in droves due to the novelty of it sexy costumes for female characters is a given in an environment like this. This again is why I wanted to focus on just the default skins. With the default skins you get the character's "normal" outfit that they wear in the world, you get an accurate lore tie-in and the outfits tend to be played straight since they are not there as a joke or an accent for the character.
I actually like the discussion we're having, by the way. No sarcasm intended at all. Let's continue this train of thought. If the base skins are the normal outfit that Riot wants to portray their champions as, why are there only two (Lee Sin and Gragas, also Tryndamere but he's not represented in your image) lightly clad or topless male champions but no less than eight (Ashe, Janna, Katarina, LeBlanc, Miss Fortune, Nidalee, Sejuani and Sivir) female champions with midriffs and varying degrees of modest to not very coverage for their tops?


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CawkBeefSandwich

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Hey guys I'm back!


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Obzidian

Member

10-03-2012

Dear Kades and those who would like to continue to have a serious discussion on the topic,

Have you noticed a trend in the posts in this thread? I have.

First, there are tons of people poking fun at the fact that people take issue with the lack of diversity in female representation in LoL. The joke, in and of itself, is dismissive of the concern. The butt of the joke is COMPLETELY people who raise a legitimate concern about a game they obviously care deeply about.

The second response you get is basically get over it. This takes the form of either, “its just a video game” as if the game (one of the most popular games in the world) exists in a vacuum. The other is chill out or don't play the game. These responses serve to de-legitimize the commentary. When they're directed at perceived females, they're “you're oversensitive” and when they're directed at perceived males they're “you're whiteknighting”. Again, the idea is that you cannot have a legitimate concern about this and the underlying idea is that the representation of one's gender and/or race in a form of popular culture doesn't matter. (This is patently untrue, see links later on.)

A third response is to attack a person just because they dared speak about it.

The final response is that someone brings up a few examples in order to attack a specific flaw in the argument while ignoring the overall argument. For example, “X character doesn't fit the body type that you're discussing, therefore your entire point that the majority of characters fit into the body type that you're discussing is void.”

Do you see the pattern? Everything serves to de-legitimize the argument rather than authentically address it.

If you've paid attention to posts on topic like this, you see the exact same response when someone brings up the lack of racial diversity in the game.

If you're someone who cares about the games and the topics at hand and you try to address this, you get tired of the incessant attacks upon your person and the constant fail to actually counter the argument. You're actually usually going to be hit really hard with personal attacks. See Anita Sarkeesian.

There are 105 champions in League of Legends. 32 are presented as female. There are, in fact, three differing body types for female champions. Those are:
1.) The Model: These champions fit traditional beauty standards with hourglass bodyshapes. They may be clothed or scantily clad but all their clothing is form-fitting and they are generally buxom. – the majority of female characters fit in this category. 27 in fact. Most of those champions are scantily clad and only two don't have completely skin tight outfits: Diana and Kayle. Even Leona's is skintight.
2.) The Cute: These are short, childlike characters – there are 4 of these: Annie, Lulu, Poppy & Tristana. Three yordles and a little girl.
3.) The Monster: These are non-humanoid creature types. There is 1: Anivia.

Furthermore, there's a strong similarity in how the Model females are all posed. The majority are posed in sexualized fashion, hips jutted out, breasts or butts pushed forward, bodies often contorted in ways that bodies don't actually work.

Proof? Here's the splash art.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q...l-females1.png
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G...l-females2.png
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-j...l-females3.png


When you look at male presented champions, you can't even break them down into so few categories. Sure, absolutely, there are a lot of bulky, hyper masculine characters. Some of these are ugly, some of these are conventionally, traditionally attractive. There are fat champions, skinny champions, monstrous champions, animal champions, old champions, young champions, there are cute champions, there are scantily clad champions, there are champions in loose clothing, there are champions in form-fitting clothing.

The men aren't even all posed similarity. Some are sitting, some are standing, some are zoomed in on their face, some aren't. Most, particularly in newer splash art, are in some form of action pose, but that's not even true for all of them.

Point? There is variety.
Here's your proof in the form of all the male splash art.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7...lol-males1.png
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-R...lol-males2.png
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--...lol-males3.png
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-m...lol-males4.png
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D...lol-males5.png
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-s...lol-males6.png


This isn't a non-existent or made up concern. There is clear, overwhelming evidence backing it up. Not only are there fewer female champions but of those champions, a certain body type and sexualized style is over represented whereas others are not. Meanwhile, we have arguments by Riot employees against including female variant champions like the Spider Queen.

The impact of these design choices does not exist in a vacuum and does have an impact upon the greater world as a whole. It does represent an ingrained sexism that exists not only in gaming culture but in the world. Recognizing and addressing this does not invalidate the wonderfulness of the game. It does, however, open the door for improvement and provides Riot with the chance to do something else revolutionary in the gaming community.

TLDR: Just watch these videos.
Tropes vs MovieBob

Nerd Sexism