Hi. I知 Sejuani, and I need to be sent back to the drawing board.

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Thessalonike

Senior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindsniper24 View Post
Posted this in another thread but it makes sense here

Possible idea I see as beneficial to Sej. All her abilities stay relatively the same everything I add here is a slight bonus ontop unless said otherwise. Passive reworked.

Passive: Your abilities cause frost on the target, auto attacks against frozen targets increase Sejuani's armor and magic resist by X for y seconds. (Or X stacking y times for Z seconds)

Q: If Arctic assault hits a frosted target Bristle (the boar) tosses the target behind him with his tusks.

W: Each time Northern Winds hits a target affected with frost the next tick is increased by 20%. (Instead of the current double damage)

E: Hits any target within range of Sejuani, if hitting a frosted target she turns frost into permafrost Dealing 100% increased damge. Base damage reduced by 40% of current.

R: When hitting a non frosted target the target is stunned and frozen in a block of ice. If hitting a frosted target the prison explodes spreading to nearby enemies. If Glacial Prison only hits one target the cooldown is reduced by X.

This could bring some interesting play to Sej without really increasing her damage significantly. Reasoning:

Q: When used as initiator it still does the same effect charging in and stopping at the first champion. If used in a combo it can displace a unit, this gives her some peel potential in group fights and a boar tossing a target into the air behind him just makes sense.

W: Due to abilities all causing frost the current effect would be a bit too powerful, every tick after the first would deal double. Instead this makes it so staying near Sej is a dangerous idea as her winds continue to increase damage dealt. This gives her a larger team presence in the long run.

E: This change allows this ability to combo better. Instead of it always being R>E or Q>E you can use E>Q to apply frost on everyone in range then charge and toss a certain champion. E>R would be required to get the current ult effect. Q>E>W or Q>W>E would both also be very effective allowing her to enter a fight, place frost on all the targets then permafrost them to keep them nearby while W rips them apart.

R: This change would change the purpose of the spell a lot, it would become ideal for surprising one target like Blitz' Q for initiation, and would have a reduced cooldown when used in this way. When combo'd with frost it would do the current effect with the current cooldown. So to get the current initiation it would be an E to apply frost and then R to stun as many as you can.

I know it is unlikely this would be implemented just due to the magnitude of the changes but I personally feel it would make her feel more rewarding and add a little bit more thought to her playstyle without bringing her into overpowered.:
I would rather her Q just pass through so she can get on high priority targets during team fights and get ahead of runners. A toss and slow is a Volibear thing... a Singed thing.

You are proposing a lot of changes which may be fun.. but I honestly think Q is all that needs to be touched.


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Szase

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviance View Post
I would rather her Q just pass through so she can get on high priority targets during team fights and get ahead of runners. A toss and slow is a Volibear thing... a Singed thing.

You are proposing a lot of changes which may be fun.. but I honestly think Q is all that needs to be touched.
I would disagree.

When I play Sej (not often mind you, more on my alt account) I'm more concerned with protecting my team then trying to get to their high-priority targets. My fighter AP and AD carry are worried about that. My job is to disrupt enemies and peel off my ADC, which I feel is something Sej really lacks with her only reliable hard CC being her ult on a long cooldown.

I proposed those changes to suggest a bit better way to have Sej interact with her frosted debuff to give her tanking a boost. She currently isn't very tanky compare to others, her damage isn't very impressive and her CC is weak. Lategame she starts to wreck with W but E falls off hard and R is not nearly reliable enough.


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LollipopNinja

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Amen


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Bikohoness

Senior Member

10-01-2012

I still think being able to bull-rush champions is quite possibly all that she needs. It is a much better solution than being able to charge through them. The strategic possibilities of a bull-rush are virtually endless, while I only see charge-through opening up 2 or 3 extra plays.

Charge-through
1. charge past enemy tank into middle of enemy team (assuming they are clustered enough), W+E.
Goals:
- hope to do enough damage to enemy carry that they try to run away
- hope you don't melt from 5-man alpha strike (good luck!)
- hope allied team can jump in and get a few kills (they still have an enemy tank between them and the enemy carries)
2. charge past an enemy with a blink/dash/charge/high movespeed + E
Goal:
Try to get ahead of someone you know can get away from you if they decide to run. Hopefully the combination of your new improved positioning + 70% MS reduction will be enough that you can hold them down long enough for a teammate to slaughter them.

Bull-rush
1. Enemy tank proving a tough front-line for initiation? push them back far enough back that they aren't able to protect their carry as well.
2. Enemy player is hanging away from the thick of battle, using ranged attacks? Push them into the cluster-f*$( so they will be caught by AOE's (including Sejuani's W)
3. Enemy assassin chasing your carry? Push them away, permafrost them so even if they flash/blink they still won't be able to catch up.
4. Katarina, Nunu or Fiddle channeling their ults? Push them away from the rest of your team.
5. Enemy (that you could never hope to duel) banging on your tower? Push them out of auto-attack range.
... the list can really go on and on.

I'm just sayin that giving Sejuani a forced move makes her powerful and relevant in today's play style. Giving her a charge-through that applies her passive only provides a couple of options for expanded gameplay (that are questionable plays anyway)


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Belligero

Member

10-03-2012

Personally, I believe she just needs some small form of damage mitigation as part of her passive or when Northern Winds (W) is active.

1 second cooldown buff on Arctic Assault (Q) and/or 10 second cooldown buff on her Glacial Prison (R) would be immensely helpful for her.

Other options would to be slightly increase her AP ratios so that building some AP is even feasible. For example, even Malphite has a 1.0 AP scaling on his ultimate which is totally random.
I know she's not supposed to be an AP carry or anything, but I'm not asking for .8 ratios on her Q and E or anything like that. Maybe she doesn't even need better ratios, but just slightly higher base damage on her skills.
Outside of an Abyssal Scepter, I see absolutely no reason to ever build ANY other AP items on her with her mediocre ratios. It's just so much better to stack health and resistances.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindsniper24 View Post
I would disagree.

When I play Sej (not often mind you, more on my alt account) I'm more concerned with protecting my team then trying to get to their high-priority targets. My fighter AP and AD carry are worried about that. My job is to disrupt enemies and peel off my ADC, which I feel is something Sej really lacks with her only reliable hard CC being her ult on a long cooldown.

I proposed those changes to suggest a bit better way to have Sej interact with her frosted debuff to give her tanking a boost. She currently isn't very tanky compare to others, her damage isn't very impressive and her CC is weak. Lategame she starts to wreck with W but E falls off hard and R is not nearly reliable enough.
Protecting the team...

Getting to the high priority targets makes you a priority target... So as a tankers checklist 1) initiate (R)(E).. check. 2) soak damage by being more of a threat (Q) to enemy source of damage... check. 3)peel... better chance now, attacking squishy (W) and autos... check. 4)present myself as a target by threat if I am immediately on the enemy source of damage... check. That is disruption.

If it doesn't go as planned I can still (Q) back to protect


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Mrfishii

Senior Member

10-03-2012

I was so excited for Sejuani, thought she would be that champ you would be so scared off.

But even if you are slowed, what is she going to do to you? smack you with her flail at like 0.7 attack speed...I wonder how she would work if he was built AS


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikohoness View Post
I still think being able to bull-rush champions is quite possibly all that she needs. It is a much better solution than being able to charge through them. The strategic possibilities of a bull-rush are virtually endless, while I only see charge-through opening up 2 or 3 extra plays.

Charge-through
1. charge past enemy tank into middle of enemy team (assuming they are clustered enough), W+E.
Goals:
- hope to do enough damage to enemy carry that they try to run away
- hope you don't melt from 5-man alpha strike (good luck!)
- hope allied team can jump in and get a few kills (they still have an enemy tank between them and the enemy carries)
2. charge past an enemy with a blink/dash/charge/high movespeed + E
Goal:
Try to get ahead of someone you know can get away from you if they decide to run. Hopefully the combination of your new improved positioning + 70% MS reduction will be enough that you can hold them down long enough for a teammate to slaughter them.

Bull-rush
1. Enemy tank proving a tough front-line for initiation? push them back far enough back that they aren't able to protect their carry as well.
2. Enemy player is hanging away from the thick of battle, using ranged attacks? Push them into the cluster-f*$( so they will be caught by AOE's (including Sejuani's W)
3. Enemy assassin chasing your carry? Push them away, permafrost them so even if they flash/blink they still won't be able to catch up.
4. Katarina, Nunu or Fiddle channeling their ults? Push them away from the rest of your team.
5. Enemy (that you could never hope to duel) banging on your tower? Push them out of auto-attack range.
... the list can really go on and on.

I'm just sayin that giving Sejuani a forced move makes her powerful and relevant in today's play style. Giving her a charge-through that applies her passive only provides a couple of options for expanded gameplay (that are questionable plays anyway)
You may be right.. But for a dash the options are not so limited.. and you dont want to charge to the middle of the enemy team because you are melee and 350 units is not going to hit everyone anyway. You want to be with the enemy priority target forcing movement from enemy teammates to support him and drawing AoE damage and away from your team. This way you force the enemy tank to turn and support similar to a bull rush.

Pass through enemies on a chase as you explained which brings more damage from positioning and forces the enemy to path around.

Allows her to support bottom easier by penetrating to adc.

Allows her to cut back on enemies giving chase

Allows her to dash away when surrounded.


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Wolverine

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Senior Member

10-03-2012

Must bump!!!


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Dunal

Senior Member

10-05-2012

I've been thinking... Perhaps her passive should be changed into a new one -- her current passive is indeed very dull (Just look at GP or Kha'Zix...). It could easily be moved as an AA passive on her E (With Q and R still applying it regardless). Just an idea that could fit her thematically:

Battle Lust
Sejuani lusts for battle, slowly increasing her Armor and Magic Resist by 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 (improving at levels 5/9/13/17) for every 5 seconds she has not encountered an enemy champion, up to 10/15/20/25/30 Armor and Magic Resist.

Upon encountering an enemy champion (Dealing damage or receiving damage) this bonus is doubled. When leaving combat against an enemy champion, this bonus is then lost completely.

So basically, she receives a situational Armor/MR steroid that's conditional based on how she plays. The longer she's away from an enemy champion (up to 50 seconds) the higher the bonus. But the downside is that if she leaves/enters combat too quickly, the bonus is potentially a lot lower. So it can effectively be countered (Attack her -- don't attack her for 5 seconds, then attack her again, which is possible if she doesn't want to commit to a fight). Sejuani has to commit to a fight to keep her passive up.

Looking at her lore -- yeah, she would now have something that strongly signifies her attitude and position (something she really needs IMO). She would gain a defensive steroid and an fairly interesting mechanic. So all good things.

A lot like Graves I suppose. Numbers could well be tweaked (or mechanic itself -- but it would be interesting to see something like it). But what with her requests for a defensive steroid (minor or otherwise) and a better passive -- this could be solution.

Just an idea, probably nothing more ofc. Would like to see something interesting done to her passive regardless though TBH. It just seems like something that could well be attached to another ability. Kind of like Xin's recent changes.