Hey @Morello, 'complexity for the sake of complexity' ? Explain. This is what I think

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BestBilbo

Senior Member

09-19-2012

feral pony wins life


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

09-20-2012

bump


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Morello

Lead Designer

09-20-2012
1 of 1 Riot Posts

I think we define skill floor and ceiling differently. Let me talk about that;

Skill floor refers to a minimum amount of skill needed to play the character and not just die and feed all the time. This is not attached to skill ceiling!

Skill ceiling is the amount of additional power/optimization/success you can receive through skill and practice. We like increasing this on many champions.

Many champions can easily have their skill cap increased via a "less is more" design, which not only keeps in line with clean and sensible, but adds skill. In the Diana example, what if the skillshot had 1/2 the cooldown and 1/2 the movement speed? That would increase skillcap, but also would leave skill floor near where it is.

Right now, I'm working with the designers to use these types of levels to increase skill ceiling without making your first game with a character be all WTF. Some champions will be more normalized (different players want different things, so we're never going to make a all Oriannas), but there's some easy wins. I'd also like to do some changes on existing champions to bring this out, though everyone will get mad when I do :P


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I think we define skill floor and ceiling differently. Let me talk about that;

Skill floor refers to a minimum amount of skill needed to play the character and not just die and feed all the time. This is not attached to skill ceiling!

Skill ceiling is the amount of additional power/optimization/success you can receive through skill and practice. We like increasing this on many champions.

Many champions can easily have their skill cap increased via a "less is more" design, which not only keeps in line with clean and sensible, but adds skill. In the Diana example, what if the skillshot had 1/2 the cooldown and 1/2 the movement speed? That would increase skillcap, but also would leave skill floor near where it is.

Right now, I'm working with the designers to use these types of levels to increase skill ceiling without making your first game with a character be all WTF. Some champions will be more normalized (different players want different things, so we're never going to make a all Oriannas), but there's some easy wins. I'd also like to do some changes on existing champions to bring this out, though everyone will get mad when I do :P
\

I absolutely agree, so you either misred my post or I just put it wrong, nhow you describe it is exactly as I mean to say.

Your colleague Feralpony had some more stuff to say on this topic.

EDIT: I edited my OP and put the comment of him over there, I still await on a comment on my response on his first post though.


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Asdioh

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I think we define skill floor and ceiling differently. Let me talk about that;

Skill floor refers to a minimum amount of skill needed to play the character and not just die and feed all the time. This is not attached to skill ceiling!

Skill ceiling is the amount of additional power/optimization/success you can receive through skill and practice. We like increasing this on many champions.

Many champions can easily have their skill cap increased via a "less is more" design, which not only keeps in line with clean and sensible, but adds skill. In the Diana example, what if the skillshot had 1/2 the cooldown and 1/2 the movement speed? That would increase skillcap, but also would leave skill floor near where it is.

Right now, I'm working with the designers to use these types of levels to increase skill ceiling without making your first game with a character be all WTF. Some champions will be more normalized (different players want different things, so we're never going to make a all Oriannas), but there's some easy wins. I'd also like to do some changes on existing champions to bring this out, though everyone will get mad when I do :P
Do you have any favorite examples of champions with a low skill floor, but high skill ceiling?


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asdioh View Post
Do you have any favorite examples of champions with a low skill floor, but high skill ceiling?
Vlad.

Easy kit, easy mechanics, easy controls (Low skill floor) -----> There's alot of difference between bad and pro Vlad players. (High skill cap/ceiling).


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Eph289

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Senior Member

09-20-2012

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Originally Posted by morello View Post
everyone will get mad no matter what i do
ftfy


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SasakitheCouncil

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Needless complexity is pointless.

For example, it certainly makes a champion harder to play, more complex, and gives a higher skill cap (and skill floor) if instead of just hitting QWER to use skills, you had to instead type in strange gibberish codes, but would that be any fun?

A champion that has DEPTH is a good champion. Most champions have a fair amount of depth, which goes beyond simply saying "oh look, this guy's moves are harder to use/hit than the other guys", it goes into the actual playstyle of champion, including things like positioning and strategic engaging and disengaging.


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

09-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SasakitheCouncil View Post
Needless complexity is pointless.

For example, it certainly makes a champion harder to play, more complex, and gives a higher skill cap (and skill floor) if instead of just hitting QWER to use skills, you had to instead type in strange gibberish codes, but would that be any fun?

A champion that has DEPTH is a good champion. Most champions have a fair amount of depth, which goes beyond simply saying "oh look, this guy's moves are harder to use/hit than the other guys", it goes into the actual playstyle of champion, including things like positioning and strategic engaging and disengaging.
Depends.


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omgggnoooooooob

Senior Member

09-20-2012

+1

just for best car na.