Introducing Honor!

First Riot Post
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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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09-19-2012
22 of 99 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BelligerentGnu View Post
Lyte, this is fantastic to hear, but why announce it now if you can't say anything about it? Now we have yet one more Soon(tm) to wait for.

Can't you give us any details at all? :/
I've answered a lot of questions about the system already, but part of the fun for this particular system is having the community discover how they want to use it.


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Deljase

Senior Member

09-19-2012

I personally do not see any real draw to the Honor system. I can understand that some players want the feature, but for those of us who have no want to participate will there be any sort of drawback?

I previously played EVE Online, a game developed around personal responsibility, even an emphasis on player self-reliance as a tool to building a better player experience. I know the game structures are very different. My time in EVE did shape my personality towards games though: I rely on myself first, cooperate to accomplish goals, and feel no remorse towards calling out other players, speaking my mind about their gameplay as how it affects me and the rest of the team.

Now some weak-hearted players who seem to lack the ability to take criticism will consider my negative comments as toxic. I expect this to leave me lacking in the Honor reports. That is entirely fine. That I guess leaves me in that 'good/bad' middle ground.

To the point: Do tough-but-fair players have any reason to consider this Honor reporting as possibly a non-benign system to further mark out players who some may consider 'toxic' to others?


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Lyte

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09-19-2012
23 of 99 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deljase View Post
I personally do not see any real draw to the Honor system. I can understand that some players want the feature, but for those of us who have no want to participate will there be any sort of drawback?

I previously played EVE Online, a game developed around personal responsibility, even an emphasis on player self-reliance as a tool to building a better player experience. I know the game structures are very different. My time in EVE did shape my personality towards games though: I rely on myself first, cooperate to accomplish goals, and feel no remorse towards calling out other players, speaking my mind about their gameplay as how it affects me and the rest of the team.

Now some weak-hearted players who seem to lack the ability to take criticism will consider my negative comments as toxic. I expect this to leave me lacking in the Honor reports. That is entirely fine. That I guess leaves me in that 'good/bad' middle ground.

To the point: Do tough-but-fair players have any reason to consider this Honor reporting as possibly a non-benign system to further mark out players who some may consider 'toxic' to others?
One of the main concerns when designing the system was to ensure that if you don't have Honor, you aren't automatically labeled as toxic. I think there's a place for Honorable and "Neutral" players, but definitely no place for toxic players.


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Fongletto

Senior Member

09-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekyll79 View Post
I agree, but I still think dealing with somebody who is fake nice is easier to play a game with than somebody who is a real monkey's behind. I would be a little concerned if honor was displayed publicly like a badge and treated as an in-game achievement that you have to work for as opposed to a private thing only you could see. It is like you said, being kind is it's own reward. People who are truely kind are sometimes humble(not always) as well and don't necessarily want something like a public badge of honor.
I agree, but there's just soooo many issues with how it can go wrong. I get a feeling the negatives won't outweigh the positives for this feature. I don't see why they can't just make it so you get honor for not getting reported.

Heres just a list of things I thought of in the last 20 seconds.

1. Popularity contest (all the popular or known players will get honored regardless)
2. With this kind of system there is no way to not have it exploited by people trading honor etc.
3. A community full of insincere players.
4. Noone willing to tell someone else how are they are going wrong anymore. Say what you will about asking nicely there is no way to ask nicely. People pretty much always take offense regardless of how you word it. Also it's been psychologically proven we learn the most from negative experiences.
5. A new way of being bias or degrading people who don't have high honor. (oh your honor is only xyz, he must be a baddy troll lets all report him)


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TSG Farefar

Junior Member

09-19-2012

All i need is a report riot button for all the 7 games in a row I just lost due to server D/C's and quitters. Love it


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Chewbert

Senior Member

09-19-2012

1) what if the player was a total troll and i decide to reward them honor at the end of the game anyways. how will that go? because im assuming they will get a harsher punishment rather than going to the tribunal.

2) What if i tell my entire team + enemy team, after the game in lobby chat, to all give honor reward to someone that was obviously trolling the entire team?

3) now what if a premade team was to give honor points to someone that wasnt even trolling, or being nice in any way during the entire game? (let's say he plays moderate, and didnt talk at all). consider that the premade team agreed to giving honor points to this player through skype or other outside communications (no way for riot to track).

4) someone played really well on the other team, but was very rude to us, my premade team agreed on vent/skype to give him honor

5) someone on my team did very well, but was very rude. we all agreed on skype to give him honor reward

6) entire enemy team was rude except 1 person on their team. we agreed on skype to give that one person honor reward.

these are just some examples of how i think the honor system can be abused. a riot can just reply with a "yes/no" to each scenario to show if it's considered an abuse to the honor system (directed at whoever was giving the honor).


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Krufix

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Senior Member

09-19-2012

How much honour should one be dishing out when it comes?

I personally regard everyone who tries their best as someone nice and would end up giving them honour.
Or do I reserve it for those really special occasions?


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tempnameA704

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Senior Member

09-19-2012

Hi Lyte, I think that the honor system sounds like a great idea. This game needs more players who exhibit positive behavior and I think this would encourage that, and give a chance to reward those that already do.

By the way, do you think you could take a look at my thread about my name change in the Help & Support section or get in touch with someone who's in that department so they can? Or if you could move it back to GD where it was originally to get more community feedback I would appreciate that as well.

Thanks!


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Lyte

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09-19-2012
24 of 99 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by âuzion View Post
1) what if the player was a total troll and i decide to reward them honor at the end of the game anyways. how will that go? because im assuming they will get a harsher punishment rather than going to the tribunal.
Nope, he'd still end up in the Tribunal. You, however, might not want to Honor people who don't deserve it.

Quote:
2) What if i tell my entire team + enemy team, after the game in lobby chat, to all give honor reward to someone that was obviously trolling the entire team?
This is one of the fastest ways to trigger the anti-abuse features.

Quote:
3) now what if a premade team was to give honor points to someone that wasnt even trolling, or being nice in any way during the entire game? (let's say he plays moderate, and didnt talk at all). consider that the premade team agreed to giving honor points to this player through skype or other outside communications (no way for riot to track).
If the premade team targeted someone on their own team repeatedly, there is a system that catches this. If the premade team gets someone on the other team to join them on an external chat program and they communicate how through the game, this can be caught too.

Quote:
4) someone played really well on the other team, but was very rude to us, my premade team agreed on vent/skype to give him honor

5) someone on my team did very well, but was very rude. we all agreed on skype to give him honor reward

6) entire enemy team was rude except 1 person on their team. we agreed on skype to give that one person honor reward.

these are just some examples of how i think the honor system can be abused. a riot can just reply with a "yes/no" to each scenario to show if it's considered an abuse to the honor system (directed at whoever was giving the honor).
In almost all of the last few cases, you'd run out of Honor soon. We purposely made the exact amounts of Honor you have to give invisible so we could make adjustments to your Honor 'pool.'


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Lyte

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09-19-2012
25 of 99 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal Jinouga View Post
How much honour should one be dishing out when it comes?

I personally regard everyone who tries their best as someone nice and would end up giving them honour.
Or do I reserve it for those really special occasions?
To be honest, we're not sure what the standards should be. Generally, if someone made your game more enjoyable and they represent a player you would love to play with again, they are worth Honoring. We'll figure this out together with the community and adjust Honor accordingly.