Pre-post rework kata analysis with numbers [wall of text]

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savov

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Member

08-15-2012

Old kata abilities stats:
passive
-15 all spells +25 gold per kill/assist
(resets all q-w-e except lvl 1 and 2 w)

ratios

q- .8 ad .35 ap

e- .75ap
r- 5ad 2.5 ap



base dmg

q- -60+35 per level

e-160 + 20 per level
r-500-650-800

cd
q - 9 -0.5 per level
w- 20-2 per level
e-10-1 per level
r-60-5 per lvl

effects

bounces 2+1 per level
w-
q-heal reduct full dmg all bounces

e-15%+5 per level
passive dmg: 8+4 per level

New kata abilities stats:
passive:
-10 ult and resets q-w-e
+25 gold per kill/assist removed

ratios

q- .5ap| +.2 IF we go in for it
w-.5ad .35ap
e- .5ap
r - 3ad 1.75ap


base dmg

q- 50 + 35per level|+15 +15 per level IF we go in for it
w-40+ 40 per level
e-40 + 30 per level
r-400-500-600


cd
q- 10-.5 per level
w- 4
e- 14-2 per level
r-60-5 per level

effects

bounces: 4 at all levels
q-bonus dmg on going in which isnt usable in most cases except team fights
w- decent-good movement boost scaling with lvl
e -20 dmg reduction

About the passive:
So the old passive used to give 25 gold per kill/assist which stimulated ganking lanes because the assists would give more gold with it
Early game it meant after using ult to kill oponent you'd have to wait 45 seconds for it which roughly was you could jump one enemy and ult him just when he came back to lane
It also allowed us with no cdr to be able to cast ult 2 times in battle or cast it in 3v1 situation and after that when engaging 5vs4 to be able to cast it after max 1/2 kill/assist
Now that would be much harder for obvious reasons.
note: and Im really not sure why they removed the gold per assist/kill

Ratios
Full combo ratios:
So combined ratios after landing all spells once for the old ver (1 target, not counting full dmg q on several targets on the old one)
Old ver:
5.8 ad and 3.6ap with full ult
4.13ad and 2.76 ap with 2 seconds ult
New ver:Im doing this asuming u hit w twice and counting q bonus
4ad and 2.8ap (repeating best case)

Lvl 6 fight Q upped 3times:
New ver:
645

Old ver
790 3sec ult
613 2sec ult though in lvl 6 one on 1 its pretty easy to bait all enemy CCs or wait for them to use in try to engage and go in then Im doing this math too and still results in 5% dmg increase with absolutely full combo and not fully channeled ult)


Lvl 18 1 target damage burst combo:
New ver (hitting w 2 times):
1225
Old ver:
1240 3 seconds ult
973 2 seconds ult, counting the passive ad bonus with the ad diff and ap diff between both versions we get around 980 which means if someone interrupts us earlier the new ver does 25% more dmg compared to the old(its still hard 1vs1 but it happens)

Lvl 18 5 targets dmg burst combo:
old ver:
2040 3 secs ult
1777 2 secs ult
new ver:
3713 with landing w 2 times everyone
2713 1 time w as we all can see, here is where the new build shines, if let alone kata will do her job even better (asuming she can hit everyone with w at least once).

The problem: the old kata relied heavily on doing massive dmg with w+q and ult when the fight had started and then just hop around and do fast finishers with E and Q. The new kata could use similar tactic but she discharges her dmg a bit slower thanks to the W when cleaning up which means that if after the ult she has to q+e+w it will take a bit longer to take down enemy which means more chances for alive enemies to focus EASY and nuke her down. The problem as Im naming it is the fact that she was already high risk - high reward snowball champ but with this update they nerfed early game damage and early game utility heavily Id say while boosting her risk-reward rating. Correct me if Im wrong but this was the problem with her not being viable competetive - weak early game and too risk-reward dependant. While having the constant dmg output from w which doesnt rely on resets as much as e-q combos Im not sure it is enough to compensate the lack of the slighly faster finishers allowing her to jump around faster.

Abilities comparison
Q analysis: Well as I used to normally (99% of the cases) level q only at lvl 1 Id say the new Q might be slightly better till about lvl 12(You get to hit one more target then and you can still do full dmg harass'lane hit using w) but for the people that used to do the Q first this means the advantage of the new Q disappears at lvl 7. This asuming you are just harassing. If you fought the new Q is again slightly better early levels but later (Id say around 7-9 lvl) the advantage disappears since the ratio of Q allowed using ad items (tbh all I ever used was hexdrinker and sometimes if the game goes long enough and I didnt need other item in its place maw but that's rare). The advantages of building hexdrinker right after your revolver are obvious. Ult scales better with ad , you get to last hit easier, you make use of the MR, you make use of the passive in every 1 on 1 lane situation and it helps negate good part of the damage with good part of the current top junglers (I've played kata actively for the last month only so it seemed like a really good idea to me since most of the gank junglers which are popular atm use magic dmg).



E + duel around lvl 4-6 analysisbviously massive buffs to both utility and damage. It mostly hurts the CD increase because that means you will have to be much more aware of the situation when going in. Previously (as I used to max E first as I said before) Id do E for going in, do Q somewhere before or after and do ult once im in,and if wild jungler appeared without me noticing (though Im used to buying at least 1-2 wards (if I got enough gold id stop on 3) on first time I go back) Id just e-flash, flash -e out of there and get ready for a dive if I felt like doing it or just continue the tactical withdraw.
Obviously with the new E (assuming we max it first but that would be crazy tbh with getting only 130 dmg at it being lvl 3 with cd 10seconds with lots of luck we go in lets say we wasted 1 second here, we do full ult (only 2 seconds now) we do one autoattack and w (mb even q if we had it on cd when going in) wasting lets say 1.5 seconds but the wild jungler we didnt notice appears out of bush or a place except the 2 side bushes asuming we warded them or out of them assuming we didnt. So about that time we'd have wasted 4 seconds and finished our full combo and somehow the target survived (or we just wanted to do trade in our favour because of the awesome ult or bully him out of lane or w/e) we have to wait 6 more seconds till new e (asuming we upped it 3 times, otherwise its pretty much out of the talk for another good 10 seconds). With the new w we get ms boost for one second and depending on how many times we leveled it we'd have 12-28% ms boost which would be good to run if most junglers didnt have very good gap closers and the situation we are in is one where we are getting ganked and we didnt see it comming (if we did we'd manage to run with both old and new build) and tbh running isnt as good as blink because it can get interrupted.(even fast running). So atm around 5-6 seconds have past since we used E to go in and we are also probably going low on health with the enemy jungler on us and lets asume the ap carry is backing him from safe distance and not doing much dmg or didnt manage to follow after we flashed/ran ran/flashed. About now we'd have open Q to hit him (its safely to asume he isnt absolutely full hp) and if we upped E 3 times we'd have on old build free blink in Max 1 second if we already didnt use it when running away because he ganked in a good moment and we'd be gone for good or stay to kill him while they try to dive us. On the new kata let's asume we got W 3 times (decent dmg + low cd = good dps,decent utility - reasonable to get it up 3 times) we used it in about 1.5-2 seconds (id say maximum since we used it when we started running from their ap carry and we are assuming only 1 cc hit us, otherwise wed be pretty dead) We'd have to run/juke for another 2 seconds and even then we'd run away from him and there is big chance he's got flash still up which means he could just flash over and finish.
Conclusion: Weakened early game not so much in terms of dmg but in terms of utility

Finishing words: While I mainly did this to convince everyone the new kata absolutely sucks from the data we can see it's not this way. The main problem in my opinion is the lack of utility at early levels and the possible tons of damage with the new W when combined with other champions.


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savov

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08-16-2012

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Technician Tim

Senior Member

08-16-2012

the only complaint i have is her shunpo, i maxed it first and used it to waltz around the fight every 4 seconds (cdr boots foolz) doing over 500 damage per time, not i use it to replace flash, or to finish a kill....so for me it went from her primary initiation/escape/damage/chase.utility to just utility,

other than that ballbuster i love new kata


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awakenPanda

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Yeah, I was really disappointed with what they did with shunpo. I don't know how much cs i lost because i thought I could kill it with shunpo in time... but I guess not.

Other than that, the new model looks great though.


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savov

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08-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by awakenPanda View Post
Yeah, I was really disappointed with what they did with shunpo. I don't know how much cs i lost because i thought I could kill it with shunpo in time... but I guess not.

Other than that, the new model looks great though.
Ye with the nerfs to shupno and bouncing blades (dmg wise) and the new ability having low ratios I really think she lost her role as single target assassin/clean up-er champ which I really hate


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savov

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08-17-2012

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