@Riot: Why would I ever play Garen... when I can play Riven?

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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossingol View Post
Honestly, you know what they should do to his ULT?

Give it the original cooldown, you can even double it. Leave everything as is...

Turn it into a global/semiglobal ult with a radius that is half of Gangplank's.

It's an orbital sword from the heavens, it seems obscene that it only lands on one person. There, suddenly Garen becomes a crazy good pick for having an amazing execution ult.
all it really needs is an overall lower cooldown, like 100/90/80 seconds and a way to get passive magic penetration.

some guy made an awesome suggestion to give it 1% magic pen for every 1% crit he builds. there, his ult is now more effective against mr stacking tanky champs instead of hitting them for 300 damage lategame.

or just leave the current 120 seconds on rank 1, whatever. as long as it just has lower cooldown on rank 3.


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SinfulKagemusha

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Riven does not yell Demacia!


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Croanin

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brobat View Post
I have already stated that I agree that Garen and Renekton need some small buffs. Riot is already working on Garen as we have seen and it will take time for them to get it right. Renekton has been getting lots of community support (and is one of my favorite characters) so it is very likely he will get some attention soon.

My problem with this thread was that the discussion quickly declined into complaining about the strengths of Champions that are not Garen which is not the proper way to address things.

If you want to compare Garen to other Champions then don't phrase it the way most of this thread has. State an issue with Garen (he has trouble scaling into late game because he cannot build Tanky and Damage at the same time) and then point out ways that other Champions solve this issue (Riven has a shield with offensive scaling) and then suggest a way Garen could solve the problem in a similar manner (his shield should be stronger). When you phrase it like "Riven's shield is so strong it makes Garen look like a joke, either they buff Garen or they should nerf Riven!" then you are not actively discussing ways to help Garen.
Riven is just the most solid comparison. People like comparing Garen to Darius and while there kits and overall look show similarities. He's just way more like Riven in terms of laning. Both lacking mana and being CD based. While Darius is kind of screwed if he doesn't see a gank coming Riven and Garen are both pretty quick enough to get way from them, and both have execution style ultimates.

Maybe this entire thread is a lost cause because unless Garen is just made to be straight out overpowered Riven will always be better because she's more versatile. Its the nerfs there giving to some points of Garen thats got us a little worked up.

Garen is too linear of a champion to ever be a viable pick in the high end competitive scene, but as potential to be at least a good solo queue pick. His dilemna is people just stay away from him to reverse snowball him. All Riot really had to do was make his passive immune to minion damage and simply find a way to make Judgement scale better so he can still be useful late game no matter how his early game went.


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Rossingol

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Bump for Riot response.


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Rossingol

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Croanin View Post
Riven is just the most solid comparison. People like comparing Garen to Darius and while there kits and overall look show similarities. He's just way more like Riven in terms of laning. Both lacking mana and being CD based. While Darius is kind of screwed if he doesn't see a gank coming Riven and Garen are both pretty quick enough to get way from them, and both have execution style ultimates.

Maybe this entire thread is a lost cause because unless Garen is just made to be straight out overpowered Riven will always be better because she's more versatile. Its the nerfs there giving to some points of Garen thats got us a little worked up.

Garen is too linear of a champion to ever be a viable pick in the high end competitive scene, but as potential to be at least a good solo queue pick. His dilemna is people just stay away from him to reverse snowball him. All Riot really had to do was make his passive immune to minion damage and simply find a way to make Judgement scale better so he can still be useful late game no matter how his early game went.
I don't think it's a lost cause as of yet. We should wait to see what they have to say about this issue. Like I said, I will not rest until a Red properly responds to this -- don't you worry.


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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossingol View Post
I don't think it's a lost cause as of yet. We should wait to see what they have to say about this issue. Like I said, I will not rest until a Red properly responds to this -- don't you worry.
the way they should have done it:
Quote:

Decisive Strike

Garen's next attack strikes a vital area of his foe, dealing bonus damage and silencing them.
Garen gains 20/26/33/39/45% Movement Speed for 4 seconds. His next melee attack deals 30/45/60/75/90 (+1.4) physical damage and silences his target for 2.5 seconds.

Now also grants 30% Crowd Control Reduction.
Quote:
Courage
defensive shield now lasts 2/3/4/5/6 seconds instead of 3 seconds.

Now reduces incoming damage by 30% at all ranks instead of 20/24/28/32/36%.

now also breaks all slows affecting Garen.


Cooldown changed to 24 seconds instead of 30/27/24/21/18 Seconds.
Quote:
Judgment

no longer breaks slow effects or reduces the duration of slow effects.

Now deals 20/45/70/95/120 plus 70/80/90/100/110 % of his attack damage instead of 50/90/130/170/210 physical damage.

Judgment can critically strike dealing bonus damage. Judgment deals 25% less damage to minions and monsters.

no 20% slow bull****
Quote:
Demacian Justice

now has a 140/110/80 seconds cooldown, changed from 140/120/100 seconds.


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Guy Deathscare

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Because Garen is different from riven


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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

08-11-2012

if they dont clean some of these changes up, its going to be another 18 month with unviable garen, until they try to fix him again...


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

08-11-2012
1 of 25 Riot Posts

I've mentioned this in passing in other threads but I'll simply say that, yes, I agree that Riven's ultimate cooldown has no business being that short and that melee kitability is a problem most characters should face and itemize against.

I've said in numerous other threads how I'm displeased with Riven's current state and would like to change her early game dominance. There was even a Garen thread in which I specifically said what my thoughts were on manaless fighters in which I directly said manaless fighters shouldn't have low CD ults early on and that it was a core problem on Riven that her's was.

However - understand what I do - I don't do live balance. I'm working on itemization and content development. If I think something is overpowered - that doesn't mean that I get to jump in and change it - it's not the discretionary call of one person.

The counterplay and gameplay of top-lane is something that's on my radar - However, it's not something a single champion change can fix. You cannot keep making stuff "fit" in the current top-lane because what exists in the current top-lane is almost all poison. When you do so, bad things happen. The current power level of Darius is almost directly caused by how strong all the top-laners are and how snowbally that lane has become.


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Rossingol

Senior Member

08-11-2012

@|Melchor|
4 seconds on the Q might be pushing it, and the Ult's new level 3 cooldown is 80 seconds, not 100 seconds. Otherwise, looks promising.

@Guy who didn't read any of the posts here
Read the posts before you say anything please. Thank you.