Running Garen Numbers on PBE

First Riot Post
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Jassu

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeefyLoveLord View Post
On the topic of rumble, the fact that he exists at all and is a resourceless champion who not only enjoys short cooldowns ( 105 on his massive utility ult with 1000 length and effective 1700 range at 100 damage a second with slow at level 1. 35 seconds shorter then garens new improved ult. ) and is in fact rewarded for mashing out his skills with passive that nets him big damage.
I think you underestimate how easy it is to overheat.


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FoxyLocksy

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Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I sliced it off. When he applies 6 ticks of damage - the ability stops.
That's simply wonderful.

You haven't really responded to this about Judgment, but I just really hope you keep in mind that since it's a DoT that doesn't allow auto attacks during it, it has to be around the same power as auto attacking and a spell. Someone else said it earlier in this thread and I think the logic is sound. Garen cannot be out-traded during Judgment, otherwise the skill becomes worthless.

People should always fear the spin. If enemies do not fear the spin, it is they who will win.


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Kelenas

Senior Member

08-11-2012

I don't get the goal behind these changes. The patch preview showed nothing but Garen getting bullied by a Shen in lane and Xypherous' posts seem contradictory. WIthout that level 1-5 domination what does Garen have? His team fighting ability seems to have been weakened in moving the slow removal to Q, the ability you cast before you are in range of the enemy team slowing you. His E does less total damage, and his W changed to % bonus from flat punishes any early health or damage items. To top it off, you aren't even giving us a physical or true damage ult?

Now I'm one for giving Riot the benefit of the doubt on champ reworks, so I'll wait and see, but Garen is a champ Riot has shown us they really don't understand. I feel like the elephant in the room with Garen is that his primary stat is cooldown reduction, and the best tanky Cdr item, Frozen Heart, is worthless on him. Brutalizer is all well and good, but without a good tank item to compliment it, he is stuck with longer cooldowns, or less defenses. Garen either needs a better upgrade to Brutalizer, or an alternative to Frozen Heart. Or maybe just let us buy Entropy on summoner's rift, that's a good Garen item.


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King of Hearts11

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Senior Member

08-11-2012

Xypherous, I hate how you ignored what should have been one of the most if not the most prioritized change on Garen:
Why is his ult still doing MAGIC damage?

Taking an extra 20 seconds off at max level wont help when you have a hello kitty version of Chogath, Darius, and Riven's ults all of which are 10x better in executing AND damaging someone.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

08-11-2012
16 of 16 Riot Posts

Quote:
Now that the original goal for the top lane has been achieved, you deem it a problem and want to change it back? Why? If that is actually the case, what is the Riot vision for gameplay? Is there a well-defined balance goal? or do you just nerf whatever is popular in a grass is always greener approach? I ask these questions because I feel like top lane is in a pretty good spot right now given how much care and skill that goes into correctly playing the lane. Changing the top lane back into a farmfest seems to be counter intuitive and certainly counter productive.
Top lane *is kind of* a dynamic action-packed 1v1 skill-oriented lane - before someone gets a kill or the jungler ganks.

Then it's pretty much an unassailable fortress as now you have zero chance in the lane.

This is hyperbole, of course - but top lane is incredibly swingy due to incredibly minor actions and this swinginess gets worse the higher your skill is.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanatsu View Post
Why cant Garen get a slight paradigm shift and have his moves scale off of Max Health as opposed to Ryze's Max Mana scaling. This way Garen can still feel tanky which is useful throughout the game and further imposes the Never Backdown, Never Retreat style that his lore described.
Health scaling is a bit of a design trap.

In the current iteration of League, it promotes very dull itemization and the annoyance of "unexpected power".

Basically, Warmog's Armor becomes the best choice, and many enemies can tend to view the champion as being "skilless" due to dealing huge damage while not having built any damage.

Especially problematic for new players, who have difficulty countering health stacking, or becoming aware of the value of Mres/Armor building.


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EnigmaticBurrito

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Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Top lane *is kind of* a dynamic action-packed 1v1 skill-oriented lane - before someone gets a kill or the jungler ganks.

Then it's pretty much an unassailable fortress as now you have zero chance in the lane.

This is hyperbole, of course - but top lane is incredibly swingy due to incredibly minor actions and this swinginess gets worse the higher your skill is.
And this is why I hate top lane and love jungling.


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Croanin

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Hearts11 View Post
Xypherous, I hate how you ignored what should have been one of the first if not the first prioritized change on Garen:
Why is his ult still doing MAGIC damage?
Because it allows him to beat Malphite?


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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythless View Post

Making older champions more in line with newer champions actually is a solution, but it's not your solution.

And on Darius, that was just because you guys designed a ****ing retarded champion without thinking what he would do to the game. I mean, did you really think his kit, his stats, his whole being, was really a good idea?
Not really. Every champ that has been made, is currently being made, and will be made in thr future all have abilities that can be seemingly unique or just another copy (Skarner, zyra, and so many others were polished as just bland copies). However, generally even with some of the testing Riot does, the problems the champion brings is not immediately inherent. And even when they are found, if it is such a small occurrence it has to be tested in the larger population (live) to get a final result if indeed it is that much of an unknown.

With this being said: If you make older champions like (let's say this year's champs) then what are you trying to do? Like literally you want to use another champion or the ideal they present in ability and copy it to a different set. And even if you don't want lets say for example new heimer = zyra, then you just want the secondary effects that these kits give them. But generally what people see in kits nowadays and want in seemingly "out dated/obsolete" champions would completely make the champion a hodgepodge of bad game play.

And we haven't even gone over the issues the current generation brings to the game that makes it better or worse. Generally you want a set of old outdated or bad "things" to be the same/follow the same foot steps of the newer/better "things", when it is simple and lacking real definition. But when you want to change ideas towards one specific idea that already has flawsXD....

Also for Darius: Darius is fine. As riot has said they no longer plan to do much if anymore nerfs, besides a change to make his ultimate less "selfish". But things seem to have normalized around that silly debate, why haven't youXD?


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MysteltainSensei

Senior Member

08-11-2012

oh...NOW people say Garen changes are bad. When I post about how bad they were I get down votes like Justin Bieber singing at a rock concert. The hell. I already explained my thoughts on my post here
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...ighlight=garen