Champion Relaunch: Katarina, the Sinister Blade

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BasedGodN1gga

Junior Member

08-10-2012

I'm surprised im not banned yet lol


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Beat Punchbeef

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

QA Analyst

08-10-2012
15 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladar View Post
Pretty harsh early game nerfs on her Q and eliminated much of the harassment that's needed in the mid-lane to keep the opponent from getting too farmed. Anyone that is less skilled at Katarina will be not picking her up because she doesn't have any of the tools most of the other popular mids have.
Her ability to safely farm or push the lane when she's at a disadvantage was her saving grace for the early game, but the additional passive from her old W being gone that possibility isn't there anymore.

Having your lane pushed in also means your opponent will be free to roam to bot or top, and not being able to put out the same amount of pressure with the full damage Q will make that a greater possibility.

Ability to zone out your opponents in the mid-lane is something that you NEED to be able to do effectively, and I don't see that happening unless she has burst that compares to fizz, and he still has some way to escape effectively if he used has E and still has Q up with a point-blank minion cast.
I don't see kata doing the same unless she blows her Shunpo on it and puts herself in a VERY bad spot.

That 1 second speed boost will not save you against someone with good reflexes, no matter what you say about it being enough to dodge cassio's retaliation/harass. W+Q+E combo from cassio once you jump on her will surely be the end of that idea.
The early game harassment from our current Katarina was simply too egregious and given for free. We tried to manage this in early testing by giving her a resource (mana) but that gameplay simply wasn't fun for the Katarina player. Her trade-off now is melee engagement and putting herself at risk. Not getting amazing poke for free sounds healthy to me.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

slayerx2

Member

08-10-2012

overbuffed


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

vanthursday

Junior Member

08-10-2012

Since they are remodeling the classics, is it about time to change Annie model. Make her a lil older now.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

sephra

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Hrm, I'm not sure how the numbers compare, but essentially yes - this is where that lost damage should "live."

Katarina does a ****ton of damage still, and in a lot of situations does more.
Never does more damage, ever ....
Passive: 10 vs 15 seconds makes a ult reset 3 kills +10 seconds or so vs old one at 2kills +10 or so. (I guess we take blue buff now for the CDR ????) needs to be at 15...
-reset of skills isn't any diff so thats cool

Q, Needs to scale off AD again as well. Its the main harass tool and its weaker now. All it really does is push lane faster. Maybe gets you some harass vs people playing super safe and back. Dunno if lower damage/messing up lane freezing is worth it.
*Ends up doing more damage if its part of your combo though for sure with the mark
*Can BB now hit the same target more than once ? couldn't before and if it can, does it trigger the mark and reapply a new mark ?

W, Farming tool some aoe damage for fights good skill i guess, pushes lane alot, but bursty. Not sure if i like the movement speed though. after you get ult the movement speed bonus won't ever actually do anything for you q/e/w/r by time your ult finishes movement speeds gone. and for lane phase e/w -> run away still lets anyone hit you for free 2 autos or 1-2 skill + 1 auto.
*Maybe make the speed buff last longer/or make it a speed debuff for them. then it could at least slow people down from running out of your ult ^_^

E, Damage halved for perm 20% DR and insanely long cooldown. Old Ki DR was larger, skill did more damage, and cooldown was shorter. Really feels weird to play, removes chasing/running/ward jump into big plays like 100%.
*the DR actually means almost nothing. kat is gonna be glass cannon and if ults interupted shes still pretty useless.. again traded early game improvements for mid/late damage
* if your going to shaft the damage hard can't also make cooldown this big.. its impossible to chase/run/ward jump with this long cooldown and you wont have blue/cdr to reduce it to useable level that early in game.

R, New ult is far less damage, and the change from 3 to 2 seconds didn't actually do anything. 1.5 seconds maybe you have a deal. but 2 nah. Most ults interupted at 1/2-2/3rds of my ult bar , thats 1.5-2ish seconds. so We traded NO CHANGE in normal interuption, for 50% heal debuff that was on a skill we could toggle if it applied(comp), for less damage. and longer cooldown
*CD for skill increased along with the passive nerf is +10 seconds, and it does less damage,

Main points:
-shunpo cant handle the 50% dmg nerf and the cooldown +50% for a medium DR from old
-Bblades -better in combo weaker by far in harassing
-New skill - movement speed needs duration increase or become a slow. for anything outside of laning, otherwise its nice skill
-Ult - damage reduction for no real in game change, heal debuff could be off BB perm or off W, Damage has to be increased or duration lowered to 1.5 from 2 second channel

+
4 bounce level 1 and w push lane so so hard.. which is nice if your vs someone who pushes fast. otherwise you want to last hit and you traded alot of damage for putting yourself into a ganked spot :/

Hero feels slower. and doesn't melt faces. could just play any other ap mid most of them do similar damage(within ~300-400), and have sustain or a cc. and none would be have to get in melee range.


From another post
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDracos View Post
Full ult:
Current: 1040 + 2.5*AP
New: 600 + 1.75*AP

2 Seconds:
Current: 693 + 1.67*AP
New: 600+ 1.75*AP

1 Second:
Current: 347 + .83*AP
New: 300 + .875*AP

You need 1,150 AP in order for the difference in AP ratios for a shorter duration to make the new ult do more damage, which is literally impossible on Kat. Her new ult simply has worse damage/second and worse total damage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kageoni4

Senior Member

08-10-2012

so basically they split her W actives


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Atrayen

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanthursday View Post
Since they are remodeling the classics, is it about time to change Annie model. Make her a lil older now.
Buff Ahri's movement speed by 5 first.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BulmaBulmaBulma

Junior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beat Punchbeef View Post
Katarina, like many assassins in our game is incredibly dependent on timing. Having a good sense for when to engage into a fight and equally as important, which target to engage on, are some of your best tools to be survivable.

The addition of the move speed buff on her W gives her some additional slipperiness in team fights that can either let her re-position very quickly or disengage from a fight if things aren't shaping to your liking. Not to mention, she still has the potential for multiple blinks in a fight which makes her incredibly hard to target once things get rolling.
I agree with you here, but I think it doesn't compensate for her general loss of 15% DR, and lack of any innate CC (hard, or soft).

Her ability to move in and out of a fight (on her own terms) is purely conditional on two occurrences:

1) There is an entity within range of Shunpo (whether she escapes one enemy to move to another, or moves to an ally).

2) She is close enough to an enemy champion where her W would hit, and give her a movement speed boost.

The first scenario is no different than what is currently on live; however, the second scenario is inherently flawed. If she's in range of an enemy champion(s) to use that ability, then she most likely is in range of their abilities as well. This creates a dangerous paradigm where the risk vs. reward scenario when fleeing, is highly in the opponents' favor.

She still lacks any real protection. The only champion (and please forgive me if I'm wrong) that she's most similar to her in this fashion is Ezreal, in that he has no innate defensive 'boosts,' (even though she'll have 20%) or CC, even though he can instantly re-position within a team fight.

New champions, and older too, that are similar to Katarina are better off because they have her movement capabilities (some with much lower CD's), coupled with some sort of defensive boost, or CC.

I would actually love to see Katarina tested with any of these changes in mind:

1) Shunpo given a soft CC (slow of some sort) - Have the cooldown increased to compensate, etc., and put the scaling to .2, or less. Then, increase damage on W to compensate (so she still has burst potential).
2) Have her new W (I forgot the ability name) have a slowing component, instead of a movement speed increase (adjust the damage if necessary). This makes her better in a team oriented scenario.
3) Shunpo given a shield instead of the 20% damage reduction, and adjust the CD as necessary (keep the low scaling).

Personally, I'm in favor of the third, because 20% damage reduction is minimal without the investment of defensive items; whereas, at least a shield that scales would be incentive to build her purely as damage. As it stands on live, and on the beta, she is too easily susceptible and controllable through CC, or straight damage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Are

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beat Punchbeef View Post
The early game harassment from our current Katarina was simply too egregious and given for free. We tried to manage this in early testing by giving her a resource (mana) but that gameplay simply wasn't fun for the Katarina player. Her trade-off now is melee engagement and putting herself at risk. Not getting amazing poke for free sounds healthy to me.

Her early game is perfect as it is now. She's fine. She doesn't need a change.

Please Riot.

Please.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Granistas

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-10-2012

I just realized her ult should've been called spray and pray instead of Twitch.