Riot will NEVER respond to any thread of importance (and here's why)

First Riot Post
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Scikala

Junior Member

08-06-2012

I've played this game for two years and have never really cared about the pricing aspect. But I can see it being bothersome if not daunting from a new players perspective. It's like a massive hill that you'll never overcome without forking over cash. Those of us who have played since the beginning have a huge lead in terms of runes, pages and champions. I've personally forked out cash for most of my rune pages, because I spent the rest on champs and runes.

That aside, I've never felt like Riot never responded enough, I can barely remember the days of old when there was constant downtime every week and it was infuriating.

It is nice to see posts like this with a good discussion.

Side note, more Double IP weekends would be nice and a heads up for it a week in advance or something. Being the gamer/geek I am, I would love to set the weekend aside, with beer, snacks and RP to purchase a weekend IP boots and rake in that sweet sweet fake currency.


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Siikes

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Member

08-06-2012

still want diana.


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KetiaX

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Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryndamere View Post
boom
All statements aside, someone has posted a thread about bug splat in Bug Reports section, and until now it has not been replied, and I doubt it's read by you or the other Riot staff.


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Epiras

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Ok, I think the president+Morello have answered everyone's questions. Let them get back to work now.


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Boyahda

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryndamere View Post
Appreciate the note and we know.

We ARE you guys, that's the funny thing. So we know exactly what it's like to be in your shoes.

God, I want to believe you so much.


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DreamLeviathan

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pryotra View Post
Ima repost this, as Heimerdinger players get no answer ever, and you seem to still be posting.

What have you learned, if anything, from your treatment of heimerdinger, and the summoners who play/played him?

He was nerfed HARD, after repeated nerfs, you guys denied the final blow was a nerf, forgot about him for more than 2 years, dealing with the entire stealth rework in the process, ignoring every heimerdinger thread, even the top heimerdinger player stopped playing him competitively, and most stopped playing him at all. Then you release Zyra, that replaces heimerdinger in every way, leaving no reason to choose Heimerdinger if you can chose Zyra. This treatment is something you have never done before, and I want to know that all this neglect at least taught you something.
Heimerdinger has been on the table for a rework for a long time. If a certain leak from a few weeks back is to be believe, then Xypherous is currently testing out a dramatic overhaul of him. The reason they can't really give details on something like this is because it IS a dramatic overhaul, lots of things are being modified and tested, and there's absolutely no guarantee of any of it getting through to the final product or how long it will take to complete. Saying "Hey we gave him bullet hell rockets" is only going to make people upset if they just don't work out and have to be cut from the final release.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epiras View Post
Ok, I think the president+Morello have answered everyone's questions. Let them get back to work now.
But responding to the community IS part of their work!


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Randell44

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryndamere View Post
Sorry, I deeply disagree here and I'll explain why:

1. Many of our players (including top players) spend ZERO on the game
2. The core game loop is can be played for free - all characters, maps, etc - even runes and rune pages
3. The things we sell are:
- Leverage your time (boosts, champions)
- Customization / cosmetic (skins)

We also intentionally have historically prioritized game features in favor of commerce features - we would rather spend engineering time creating awesome things like spectator mode or scaling the platform, etc - rather than on things like "let's add more things we can sell to the game". Now that we are bigger, we can do more in parallel - and this is both from a development & business perspective - so you guys will see more "focus" on improving what exists in the store and how we communicate / manage this stuff.

As I said earlier, mindshare from both groups is focused on cooler things that will add more VALUE to you guys, but we think that for the hundreds or thousands of hours of entertainment we provide, we are about as cheap as it comes (we have the math here too and it is fact )
I do appreciate your reply. However let me respond in kind.

Quote:
1. Many of our players (including top players) spend ZERO on the game
Top players is a red herring.

As someone else pointed out an extremely skilled player can actually earn their RP/$ via small tournaments and use that to bypass the normal spreed restrictions on obtaining new champions, rune pages, etc. To use this tiny % of people that bypass the system using capabilities that the vast majority of your customers do not even possess as an example is downright repugnant when viewed from the stance of honesty and fairness.


Also "many" is an extremely vague term. I can use the term many to refer to a dozen people out of millions and be quite accurate. An approximate % would be much more useful. A direct number would work too since somebody would figure out the approximate % in a heartbeat. Also, what % of those many are active players? As this is another tactic used very much to pad numbers in the business world. A million level 1 summoners still counts as players who have not purchased.

Vague terms and ideas are absolutely useless when not backed up with context and hard numbers or at least reasonable approximations.

Quote:
2. The core game loop is can be played for free - all characters, maps, etc - even runes and rune pages

3. The things we sell are:
- Leverage your time (boosts, champions)
- Customization / cosmetic (skins)
This is not argued at all. However the downtime for the characters is 90% or more and the time investment needed for new players for runes, rune pages, champions, etc is ridiculous. We are talking literally hundreds of hours of play to have a small stable of champions and a full rune page or two.

300 hours of play would quite literally only get you a single rune page and 12 champions. Assuming you didn't screw anything up and we assumed middling values (3150 champions and mostly 420 IP runes). This would also take you over 4 months if you play 15 hours a week. I think 9-12 champions and 1-2 rune pages is a reasonable approximation for someone finally achieving a stable playing experience that has at least some variety.



Tell me how that is reasonable OR competitive to play 300 hours just to reach a stable workable state with a small taste of variety.





You're overuse of awesome and value as buzzwords killed their appeal for me after several posts when I realized that the awesome behind it was an empty shell. I actually gave you the benefit of the doubt at first and it even made me smile, but as usual I'm left disappointed with the truth. The truth being that your words actually fight themselves as well as the game design.


Oh and btw, players are not asking for an Apple based more value approach. They want a lower bar to entry more value approach. More value doesn't mean cheaper or easier to achieve. It means that, by someone's personal reckoning, you are getting more for the money you spend. Using this logic many people have gone broke while getting a great amount of value for their money. Because buying something on sale and getting it cheaper doesn't matter if it is still more money than you can afford to spend or more money than you can justify.


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Opreich

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryndamere View Post
The person who used to is no longer with the company
I thought MoneyPenny got fired.


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Do Not Towerdive

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryndamere View Post
If we did that, then you're right, that is terrible.

What is the responsibility of leadership in this case (like me)? It's to ensure that the people who handle these situations understand what went poorly, how our actions are misaligned with our ideals and then we try to learn from it so if there is another situation we can do better in the future.

That's what we try to do - but again, we don't bat 1,000 (but I think we're still pretty F'ing cool).
It's not a question of if. It's a question of will it happen again and what is going to happen now? You've acknowledged the problem. Time to fix it. Ideas (mostly crazy, but still ideas) have been tossed around for weeks. (ex. everyone gets a free name change like Blizzard allows)

Are some of these viable for Riot to do without losing substantial amounts of money? I don't know! But people would know than Riot is willing to make up for their mistakes, regardless of time taken.