I think the Tribunal is pretty biased toward's the people who are reporting....

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Blossora

Senior Member

08-05-2012

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Originally Posted by WillJStar View Post
i read everything all the time, why do people always assume people dont read? do you not read? is that why?
TL;DR exists for a reason. MOST people don't like to read wall of texts.


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DeathCrunch

Member

08-05-2012

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Originally Posted by horcruxjesus View Post
Lyte, you are such an interesting poster. You know that you're going to get a real answer when you post in a topic. You should do an AMA sometime. I feel like it'd be really interesting to learn from all of the data that you have.

For instance, are any champions statistically more likely to be reported (post-eve rework)? Do more bans happen to pre-30 or post-30 accounts? Do accounts from a certain region tend to report more than others? I feel like there have to be some great factoids buried in all of the data that you have.
They like to dodge this question because they love to claim that people DO NOT get banned for playing a specific champion.

But pre-rework-Eve, a person playing Eve was like 25x more likely to be suspended than the average champion.

And if you asked Riot, "How do you account for the higher-than-normal ban rate on Eve?" they would simply ignore the question or say something like, "Trolls like to play Eve" which would put them in a no-win situation because Eve players would rush to the forums and lay some smack down.

They're still trying to hide the fact that report frequency = ban rate, and that reporters have all of the true power in the system.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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08-05-2012
26 of 27 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCrunch View Post
They like to dodge this question because they love to claim that people DO NOT get banned for playing a specific champion.

But pre-rework-Eve, a person playing Eve was like 25x more likely to be suspended than the average champion.
Please don't make up numbers. This is a warning. Eve players were not more likely to be suspended by the Tribunal--I personally did this analysis.

Eve players pre-stealth rework were more likely to be reported; however, they were not banned more often and usually never reached the Tribunal.


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DeathCrunch

Member

08-05-2012

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Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Please don't make up numbers. This is a warning. Eve players were not more likely to be suspended by the Tribunal--I personally did this analysis.

Eve players pre-stealth rework were more likely to be reported; however, they were not banned more often and usually never reached the Tribunal.
I would give my left index finger to get my hands on the data you have. (I highly doubt the bolded statement means what most people think it does - if Eve players are reaching the Tribunal more often, then they would have to be banned LESS OFTEN in order to have an equitable suspension-rate-by-champion).

I'm good at playing games with statistics too. I've written half a dozen academic papers.

You should probably just ban this account (and DeathCrunchBaby) because I'm going to temp you to say things that the marketing department isn't going to like.

My educational background is practically identical to yours. I left academia and went into marketing, and I see you're going in a similar direction the way you're working in a design position that relies heavily on PR and marketing.

I sympathize with the plight you find yourself in, trying to babysit 30,000,000 people.

But I've been around the block too many times to get fooled by the word games and numbers games.

In truth, there's no good way to moderate a MOBA. It's too easy for one player to turn the game into a 4v6 by playing like **** intentionally and then saying, "My bad I'm so sorry I'm so unskilled."

It's called the Shlemiel game in Games People Play.

I'm starting to realize that no matter how much you improve the Tribunal, you're not going to fundamentally change the fact that it allows people to grief each other endlessly.

And you'll never change the fact that Tyranny of the Majority is the only way for the game to function.


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CrossTheRiver

Senior Member

08-05-2012

deathcrunch, could you be a bigger tool bag? Lyte is more educated than you, wiser than you, more mature than you, and infinitely more of a man than you. You won't be "temp"ing him to do anything.

Except maybe pointing out how much of a childish buffoon you are.

I guess every board has its jesters. You just wear the loudest bells.


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DeathCrunch

Member

08-05-2012

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Originally Posted by CrossTheRiver View Post
deathcrunch, could you be a bigger tool bag? Lyte is more educated than you, wiser than you, more mature than you, and infinitely more of a man than you. You won't be "temp"ing him to do anything.

Except maybe pointing out how much of a childish buffoon you are.

I guess every board has its jesters. You just wear the loudest bells.
My education level and background is practically identical to his, sorry to break it to you.

I've taught numerous college-level courses, etc. etc.


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ploki122

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCrunch View Post
I would give my left index finger to get my hands on the data you have...

I'm good at playing games with statistics too.

You should probably just ban this account (and DeathCrunchBaby) because I'm going to temp you to say things that the marketing department isn't going to like.

My educational background is practically identical to yours. I left academia and went into marketing and sales, and I see you're going in a similar direction.

I sympathize with the plight you find yourself in, trying to babysit 30,000,000 people.

But I've been around the block too many times to get fooled by the word games and numbers games.

In truth, there's no good way to moderate a MOBA. It's too easy for one player to turn the game into a 4v6 by playing like **** intentionally and then saying, "My bad I'm so sorry I'm so unskilled."

It's called the Shlemiel game in Games People Play.

I'm starting to realize that no matter how much you improve the Tribunal, you're not going to fundamentally change the fact that it allows people to grief each other endlessly.

And you'll never change the fact that Tyranny of the Majority is the only way for the game to function.
Actually, what she says does make sense... pre-rework Eve was weak and everybody knew that... From that point we can guess that more people would consider her a troll pick (and so more people would report her if she had a negative game [so like she said, more reports]) but then, a lot of people did not use Evelynn only for trolling and DID try... so they didn't always go Eve and didn't always go negative, meaning that most didn't end up reported (so ratio reported/Tribunal'd is lower than most champs) and lastly, those that did pick Eve for the only purpose of feeding only picked Eve out of a lack of inspiration/skill to troll, meaning that real troll would far more use Sing/Anivia/Urgot and that leads to more efficient trolls and more Tribunal'd. Lastly, since most Eve were trying, when they end up in Tribunal, they get judged and pardoned (lack of proofs that she was intentionally trolling), meaning that her Trbunal'd/Banned must have also been low...

I just proved you how Lyte's 3 facts can be right namely :
- pre-rework Eve was reported more than most champs.
- pre-rework Eve didn't end up in tribunal more than most champs.
- pre-rework Eve wasn't banned more often than most champs

feel free to give your opinion on that, but I don't think I've played with numbers/words that much...


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CrossTheRiver

Senior Member

08-05-2012

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Originally Posted by DeathCrunch View Post
My education level and background is practically identical to his, sorry to break it to you.

I've taught numerous college-level courses, etc. etc.
Hmm, I'm not sure what I'm more terrified at. That you might be telling the truth, or that you believe your lies might fool someone here.


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DeathCrunch

Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ploki122 View Post
Actually, what she says does make sense... pre-rework Eve was weak and everybody knew that... From that point we can guess that more people would consider her a troll pick (and so more people would report her if she had a negative game [so like she said, more reports]) but then, a lot of people did not use Evelynn only for trolling and DID try... so they didn't always go Eve and didn't always go negative, meaning that most didn't end up reported (so ratio reported/Tribunal'd is lower than most champs) and lastly, those that did pick Eve for the only purpose of feeding only picked Eve out of a lack of inspiration/skill to troll, meaning that real troll would far more use Sing/Anivia/Urgot and that leads to more efficient trolls and more Tribunal'd. Lastly, since most Eve were trying, when they end up in Tribunal, they get judged and pardoned (lack of proofs that she was intentionally trolling), meaning that her Trbunal'd/Banned must have also been low...

I just proved you how Lyte's 3 facts can be right namely :
- pre-rework Eve was reported more than most champs.
- pre-rework Eve didn't end up in tribunal more than most champs.
- pre-rework Eve wasn't banned more often than most champs

feel free to give your opinion on that, but I don't think I've played with numbers/words that much...
My main point was that if his statements are true and Eve players were reaching the Tribunal more often, then they would have to be banned LESS OFTEN in order to have an equitable suspension-rate-by-champion.

I highly doubt Eve players were pardoned more frequently than other champs once they hit Tribunal...

Lyte is a both a skilled designed and a skilled PR guy. He can twist words to make things look the way Riot wants them to look, but it doesn't change the basic facts that Tribunal puts all the ban-power in the hands of the people doing the reporting.

I'm not holding Lyte personally responsible for the fact that human nature is corrupt and MOBAs are impossible to moderate.


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CrossTheRiver

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCrunch View Post
My main point was that if his statements are true and Eve players were reaching the Tribunal more often, then they would have to be banned LESS OFTEN in order to have an equitable suspension-rate-by-champion.

I highly doubt Eve players were pardoned more frequently than other champs once they hit Tribunal...

Lyte is a both a skilled designed and a skilled PR guy. He can twist words to make things look the way Riot wants them to look, but it doesn't change the basic facts that Tribunal puts all the ban-power in the hands of the people doing the reporting.

I'm not holding Lyte personally responsible for the fact that human nature is corrupt and MOBAs are impossible to moderate.

Your grammar and demeanor are so...phony I just can't believe that you are anything more than a liberal arts major at a community college somewhere in your second year.