Ranged AD Items - Need more selection

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ImIndustructible

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by XCodes View Post
I think we should have more variety, though, at least for different ranged champs.

Maybe something like an AD item that increases AP based on bonus AD? If the numbers are good enough, then that's something that Varus and Kog'Maw might get instead of IE.

Or maybe buff/alter Black Cleaver to the point where it's competing with IE/BT instead of LW for an item slot?

The Triforce on Corki is a good example. Don't necessarily need a variety of options for one, specific ADC, but rather getting the various ADCs to build different items than each other.
Some good intentions there, but:
1. You should also consider that the AP from AD items will be abused by true hybrid champions (The most obvious one: Akali).

2. Black Cleaver is much cheaper than IE & BT, and it aims at killing the light-AR-geared one, not the heavy-AR-geared dudes. Which, BC is very good at that.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-30-2012
1 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
I feel like this is most of the time the only way to build AD carries and is what makes playing an AD carry sometimes stale.

Are there plans to implement other items in the near future?
There's very little point in making multiple flavors of the same thing. IE/PD/LW is the core damage-line for AD carries. It is perfectly okay that IE/PD/LW will always have the highest damage output conceivably for all item builds you can build. There's not a whole lot of value in making other items that compete with IE/BT/LW and trying to fight for damage:

1. At the end of the day, you've either made an item that's basically IE/PD or LW - but goes by a different name.
2. Or you've just made an item that's a mistake to buy or a mistake to not buy - depending on how the math goes for your character.

But wait, why can't other utility items exist so that carries can build more varied defensive items or spec side utility with their damage? Because Phantom Dancer is ridiculous.

There isn't a single defensive item in the game that equates to 12% move speed on this class. You could think of tons of conceivable utility that AD carries could have or want - but it almost always loses to 12% move speed at the end of the day.

It's kind of a tough problem given how addictive the free mobility is.


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XVIII The Moon

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
There's very little point in making multiple flavors of the same thing. IE/PD/LW is the core damage-line for AD carries. It is perfectly okay that IE/PD/LW will always have the highest damage output conceivably for all item builds you can build. There's not a whole lot of value in making other items that compete with IE/BT/LW and trying to fight for damage:

1. At the end of the day, you've either made an item that's basically IE/PD or LW - but goes by a different name.
2. Or you've just made an item that's a mistake to buy or a mistake to not buy - depending on how the math goes for your character.

But wait, why can't other utility items exist so that carries can build more varied defensive items or spec side utility with their damage? Because Phantom Dancer is ridiculous.

There isn't a single defensive item in the game that equates to 12% move speed on this class. You could think of tons of conceivable utility that AD carries could have or want - but it almost always loses to 12% move speed at the end of the day.

It's kind of a tough problem given how addictive the free mobility is.
You could buff Medreads Bloodrazor's AD So it isn't so useless. That would open one viable option to build. Since most of the time on the tanky targets you want to use it on, they have about 50% MR, reducing the 4% hp shred down to 2% meaning that another BT would deal more damage on you then Bloodrazor.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

07-30-2012

You could at least make the AD Carry items more exciting and--dare I say it---MAGICAL. Because, seriously, there is nothing magical about Last Whisper. Nothing.


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Xela Syab

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
There's very little point in making multiple flavors of the same thing. IE/PD/LW is the core damage-line for AD carries. It is perfectly okay that IE/PD/LW will always have the highest damage output conceivably for all item builds you can build. There's not a whole lot of value in making other items that compete with IE/BT/LW and trying to fight for damage:

1. At the end of the day, you've either made an item that's basically IE/PD or LW - but goes by a different name.
2. Or you've just made an item that's a mistake to buy or a mistake to not buy - depending on how the math goes for your character.
You guys really need to work on that attitude there's TONS of item combinations you guys are missing out on, particularly on stat boosting on hit procs. Theres no attack boosting proc except Sanguine Blade (which really should just take over bloodthirster), no movespeed proc, no CDR proc, no regeneration proc, no mid game AP armor item, no hybrid penetration item, no tank anti hp item. Also you guys have made the highest crit damage and ad damage in the game as 1 item which is causing static item build for carries. If you spit IE in half with a crit booster on one and the highest flat AD item in the other then atleast it forces carries into a decision between them and gives other champion types to shine before they get facerolled by the carry. Seriously even mages are forced into this situation because of mana, mana regen, cdr, and AP needs. And their only movespeed item costs too much and puts them in needless danger due to autoattacking.

Seriously if you think phantom dancer is ridiculous then change it to have a movespeed on hit proc to have +8% movespeed +1% movespeed on basic attack stacks 4-5 times for 7 seconds.


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Valcx

Senior Member

07-30-2012

LW so **** good what you talking about lolz


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TalLavi

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Senior Member

07-30-2012

Xyph when is the new AD Caster item? CDR and Spellvamp! (Ex's calling + Brut)


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Vuther

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
There's very little point in making multiple flavors of the same thing. IE/PD/LW is the core damage-line for AD carries. It is perfectly okay that IE/PD/LW will always have the highest damage output conceivably for all item builds you can build. There's not a whole lot of value in making other items that compete with IE/BT/LW and trying to fight for damage:

1. At the end of the day, you've either made an item that's basically IE/PD or LW - but goes by a different name.
2. Or you've just made an item that's a mistake to buy or a mistake to not buy - depending on how the math goes for your character.

But wait, why can't other utility items exist so that carries can build more varied defensive items or spec side utility with their damage? Because Phantom Dancer is ridiculous.

There isn't a single defensive item in the game that equates to 12% move speed on this class. You could think of tons of conceivable utility that AD carries could have or want - but it almost always loses to 12% move speed at the end of the day.

It's kind of a tough problem given how addictive the free mobility is.
Item Discussion posters, give this man the recognition he deserves for posting here!

DO IT


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YamiBelgarath

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Senior Member

07-30-2012

Step 1: Nerf Phantom Dancer
Step 2: Nerf Bloodthirster
Step 3: Bring Sanguine Blade to SR/TT
Step 4: Make a Zeal/Brutalizer combo
Step 5: Make a Ex's calling + Brut combo
Step 6: Suddenly, AD's are making choices

Newsflash: Vayne, Graves, and Cait are dfferent champions with different playstyles: if they are mandated by stats to take the exact same items, SOMETHING IS WRONG. Just because Morgana, Vladimir, and LeBlanc are all AP carries, does not mean they should have to take the same builds- and they don't, because Riot has taken the time and energy to create different AP items with specialization. Obviously, they share some similar qualities- just as all AP carries will be getting a Deathcap, all AD's will probably continue getting IE. But there's no reason that every AD carry should have the exact same 6 item build. Xypherous' post is literally just other words for: we're lazy and don't care enough to give AD carries more often. He can write it in pretty words, but it doesn't change the meaning. I'm disappointed- that's the kind of attitude Riot can't afford to have, or other games are going to start catching up.


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Agg

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
There's very little point in making multiple flavors of the same thing. IE/PD/LW is the core damage-line for AD carries. It is perfectly okay that IE/PD/LW will always have the highest damage output conceivably for all item builds you can build. There's not a whole lot of value in making other items that compete with IE/BT/LW and trying to fight for damage:

1. At the end of the day, you've either made an item that's basically IE/PD or LW - but goes by a different name.
2. Or you've just made an item that's a mistake to buy or a mistake to not buy - depending on how the math goes for your character.

But wait, why can't other utility items exist so that carries can build more varied defensive items or spec side utility with their damage? Because Phantom Dancer is ridiculous.

There isn't a single defensive item in the game that equates to 12% move speed on this class. You could think of tons of conceivable utility that AD carries could have or want - but it almost always loses to 12% move speed at the end of the day.

It's kind of a tough problem given how addictive the free mobility is.
I've recently returned from a lengthy hiatus. There was talk of an AD-caster item being worked on some before I took my break, any progress on that, or has that ceased to be a thing?

edit: also disagree on your 2nd point. while IE/PD/LW are great items, there are other stat combinations available. maybe reduce their stats+cost so that they aren't far and away the most dmg per slot so that other items can be legitimate choices. As you said, PD is ridiculous. Maybe it shouldn't be?


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