@Morello Lets talk Talon

123456 ... 11
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

A Planeswalker

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saigo Getsuga View Post
Top is made for manly men.

Like Riven, Darius Garen, Irelia, Xin.
Back when Tryndamere was a common top lane Talon was a good counter IMO.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ask the Monkey

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
@Morello Lets talk Talon
Tal talon, tal tal ta t t t talo talon.
T ta talon tal, t tal tal talon talo t t talo tal?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Swiftcarp

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeTantalus View Post
So I think most people agree that talon needs a little bit of help. He makes for a great mid lane, but he was built for top lane, which he currently cant do. His kit also has some small problems, im going to go over what I think needs changing.

1) His passive: In my opinion, talons passive is one of the most useless, and doesnt really flow with his kit at all. Ive never seen a good talon player rush a Frozen Mallet, and the only way he can proc it himself is with W (which is a very short window mind you), or a lucky phage proc. It just doesnt feel good at all, and its a "power passive" as a red put it (Zileas), a passive that isn't fun to use, and just adds power to his kit.

Suggested fix:A friend and I were talking about this one night and he came up with a pretty good Idea. For however much health they are missing, talons (Autos?) will do bonus % physical damage. I think it would be good as it fits with the whole assassin role, and would be much less dependant on others cc or lucky phage procs.

2) His E: His E should be able to cast on his allies, similar to jax leap or Kat shunpo. One of talons biggest issues is getting out of a team fight safely. Say if he gets a kill, his E refreshes immediatly. He can then decide, "is it safe for me to stay and go for more kills, or should I back out?" It would open up more gameplay oppurtunities. I would also say let the silence scale to 1.5 seconds when maxed, but thats not the main point.

These are just the flaws and things ive noticed that I dont think fit with talons kit or need changing. To make him a more viable to top, maybe move his base stats around. But I basically would just like to know if talon is even getting looked at right now. What is the communities thought on talon?
So you want his E to be Shunpo...but significantly better? Just doesn't seem fair to me. Having a slow, a MS increase on a stealth, and then a Silencing shunpo that resets on kills seems way over the top in terms of mobility on a champion that scales that well and has as strong of a kit as he does. Sometimes you just have to commit. That's a gameplay opportunity for you. "Do I want to go in and kill ashe real quick and probably die, or do I want to wait until I know I can get away for sure?" Being able to jump in, kill ashe, and flawlessly escape would be absurd and would obsolete multiple characters.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bma

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-23-2012

'and the only way he can proc it himself is with W (which is a very short window mind you), or a lucky phage proc'

He procs it on his first auto attack after E, as that is a silence. Since u only get 2 autoattacks max in the burst combo, it's actually not a very 'missable' passive. Also, without this passive he would do less damage in his burst, so any change must compensate for this or we have to add base damage on his abilities. (edit: im wrong about this! does seem like a rather useless passive but I'll see if i should maybe change the combo to w ehitqrignite or wehitrq but that's probably wrong anyway because I don't think anyone's stupid enough to fall for that)

Giving Talon an allied blink AND a refresh on kill is overkill too. There should be a risk associated with instantly killing a target (the full combo only takes ~ 1 second). Even if you get focused if you took down their AD carry first then it's probably worth it. You don't have to survive, you did your job already.

The only things I would actually do with Talon atm is tweak Talon's W a little bit either in cd or mana cost or consider his super early game (pre4). Right now his mana cost slightly restricts him in lane if he wants to go 9 in defence (it's not the biggest deal, you just have to conserve a bit more. You will notice the difference if you go 9 in utility though, you get so much more freedom in lane). And also his W's cd seems a bit too long in the later stages of the game when it comes to teamfights. You are going to be using your w to poke until someone gets out of position, but then that's 8 seconds where if someone gets out of position in the teamfight you may no longer be able to full burst them. And that's literally all he does in the poke phase before the teamfight - spam w.

Early game (pre-4) I feel like minion damage is a pretty big issue too but that is probably just a way to balance talon anyways!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EFG

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saigo Getsuga View Post
Top is made for manly men.

Like Riven, Darius Garen, Irelia, Xin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saigo Getsuga View Post
manly men
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saigo Getsuga View Post
Riven, Irelia
k


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sokar468

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoenA View Post
'and the only way he can proc it himself is with W (which is a very short window mind you), or a lucky phage proc'

He procs it on his first auto attack after E, as that is a silence. Since u only get 2 autoattacks max in the burst combo, it's actually not a very 'missable' passive. Also, without this passive he would do less damage in his burst, so any change must compensate for this or we have to add base damage on his abilities.
Silence does not activate the passive. Only slows, immobilizes, basically movement-related CC allows for the passive bonus damage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bma

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar468 View Post
Silence does not activate the passive. Only slows, immobilizes, basically movement-related CC allows for the passive bonus damage.
Oh you're right. Well that's awkward, I guess I never really use the passive then h4h4. Maybe they should just buff him by adding silence to the passive then.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Metallize

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftcarp View Post
So you want his E to be Shunpo...but significantly better? Just doesn't seem fair to me. Having a slow, a MS increase on a stealth, and then a Silencing shunpo that resets on kills seems way over the top in terms of mobility on a champion that scales that well and has as strong of a kit as he does. Sometimes you just have to commit. That's a gameplay opportunity for you. "Do I want to go in and kill ashe real quick and probably die, or do I want to wait until I know I can get away for sure?" Being able to jump in, kill ashe, and flawlessly escape would be absurd and would obsolete multiple characters.
Cutthroat doesnt do Damage. Shunpo does


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kazhang

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-23-2012

He needs a lot.

He has one place in lane, and that's as a counter pick. So as a blind pick, it's a 80/20% chance that you'll get your ass kicked.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheSoulPunisher

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBlow4iPod View Post
Refreshing the escape works with Katarina because for her to get that kill she needs to channel her ult, which is the time she is most vulnerable. Talon doesn't have that moment where you're vulnerable. At least not that i've felt.
She can get that kill with only Shunpo as well, so she could easily Shunpo in and then out.

He's also vulnerable if there's a vision ward placed or there's an oracle on the enemy team, which ruins the chance of him getting away more easily if there wasn't any.


123456 ... 11