Tribunal is lose-lose system.

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LawGiver500

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Tribunal is a lose-lose system in the fact that when players LOSE their temper and become toxic to the community they LOSE the privilege to play the game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kreshel

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

06-28-2012

I support you on this one OP. I never rage nor use heated languague, and am always calm, so many would say I have no reasons to support you.
But what I fear is the abuse of power, and I see the community is legitimizing it by not speaking up in cases like this. They blindly back up punishment.
I rarely get affected by offensive comments, as I understand we are all stressed and for some thats the only way they know to ease off. And I also know for many is very annoying to have someone on your team slighting you the whole time.
Punishment is a poor solution, and as far as I can see the only Riot knows.
A rewarding system instead of a punishment one is a much positive and effective method not only to get a good behavior, but also to have people aiding and encouraging their team. We could see the dialogs as we see them know, and instead of having 2 buttons pardon-punish have one button of "award" if we think he deserves it.

Rewards are not something that would cost money to Riot. Rewards can be as easy as a badges that distinguish the summoners with certain things. For example "summoner of stone, he never stood you up" for those that has almost no leaves or quits. And so etcetera.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zero THM

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreshel View Post
I support you on this one OP. I never rage nor use heated languague, and am always calm, so many would say I have no reasons to support you.
But what I fear is the abuse of power, and I see the community is legitimizing it by not speaking up in cases like this. They blindly back up punishment.
I rarely get affected by offensive comments, as I understand we are all stressed and for some thats the only way they know to ease off. And I also know for many is very annoying to have someone on your team slighting you the whole time.
Punishment is a poor solution, and as far as I can see the only Riot knows.
A rewarding system instead of a punishment one is a much positive and effective method not only to get a good behavior, but also to have people aiding and encouraging their team. We could see the dialogs as we see them know, and instead of having 2 buttons pardon-punish have one button of "award" if we think he deserves it.

Rewards are not something that would cost money to Riot. Rewards can be as easy as a badges that distinguish the summoners with certain things. For example "summoner of stone, he never stood you up" for those that has almost no leaves or quits. And so etcetera.
We'll never see it. Instead, we're basically told to "tattle to mommy" if someone hurts our feelings. Even if we're tanking the game. Even if we're a cactus. Why? Because cacti buy RP too.

People are too unwilling to grow up, and the tribunal-mommy system doesn't help that either. Instead of saying, "Buck up, just ignore them and play to win," we're led to believe that what these people are saying to us over the internet where we will never meet them is supposedly "harmful." If you're harmed by someones opinion on how you play a FTP online game, banning the guy saying "noob" is the least of your problems, as you need some pretty significant help.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The Hobo Lord

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotTiza View Post
It's wise to take into account the fact that neither you nor I have a full picture of how the Tribunal has been working and what the end result should be - so neither of us are in a position to make blanket statements about trends.

That said, two wrongs don't make a right. If somebody becomes abusive and disruptive because "they started it", they don't get a free pass. Yes, players who are clearly goaded into anger deserve leniency over unprompted ragers, but flaming someone is flaming someone. There are plenty of constructive ways to deal with unpleasant people that don't risk crossing any lines.

It's not a black-and-white issue by far- which is why we have a system in place that allow real people to make qualitative judgements on a larger picture of a player than a single game.



There is nothing wrong with having to think before you speak. You have no right to just say "you are bad." That adds no value to the player, the team, or the game, and just makes the player (who is already fully aware that they aren't having a good game) upset. You should have no fear of giving constructive feedback - say something like "you really need to keep wards up so you stop dying to ganks" at the very least.

Nobody is being punished for passion - they are punished when they respond poorly to that passion. If you want to rage, you're free to scream at your monitor - you get to say "YOU ARE SO BAD" as much as you want without the negative effects on your target (when they get upset) or yourself (when you risk getting banned).
I dunno but I play other games competitively and trash talk is part of the culture, I appreciate you are trying to change it, but you have to realize how jarring what you're doing is. In a random pub game of ANY other game, trash talk is the norm. It might be different in serious matches, but in normals, why do yall care about ppl "playing nice" so much.

Also, this game has gone to hell if "you are bad" is ban worthy. Its called venting, a healthy human response. Also, ppl want their vents to be heard.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shiister

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hobo Lord View Post
I dunno but I play other games competitively and trash talk is part of the culture, I appreciate you are trying to change it, but you have to realize how jarring what you're doing is. In a random pub game of ANY other game, trash talk is the norm. It might be different in serious matches, but in normals, why do yall care about ppl "playing nice" so much.

Also, this game has gone to hell if "you are bad" is ban worthy. Its called venting, a healthy human response. Also, ppl want their vents to be heard.
The care about people playing nice in normals, because everyone play normals with stranger then they play with friends, so if I'm playing with strangers I rather not be subjected to them raging and complaining just because we strangers. Riot don't care what any other game does, they care about what they game is doing so using the "but at Blizzard I can trash talk all I want" won't fly over here, you want to trash talk? Play Blizzard's games and get off Riot's games with that.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zero THM

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hobo Lord View Post
I dunno but I play other games competitively and trash talk is part of the culture, I appreciate you are trying to change it, but you have to realize how jarring what you're doing is. In a random pub game of ANY other game, trash talk is the norm. It might be different in serious matches, but in normals, why do yall care about ppl "playing nice" so much.

Also, this game has gone to hell if "you are bad" is ban worthy. Its called venting, a healthy human response. Also, ppl want their vents to be heard.
Agreed. I've never heard of people being banned in other games for telling someone how they feel about their ability to play the game. Smack-talk is a large part of gaming culture, and isn't going to go away, even if Mommy is in the room. Competitive games are full of all types of gamers, and not all of them are care bears who want to cry when someone says a mean thing. Why would we want to turn all of our players into that? Instead, why not grow up, accept that someone else can be a jerk without crying an entire **** river to the game creator, and play the game like adults?

I think it's pretty **** shameful that we have to have a Verbal Abuse and Verbal Harassment report system. It says a lot about us as a community that we are reduced to running and telling every time someone says something we don't like. And for the life of me I can never figure out why summoners who back this system like to be treated like children, but it's almost insulting to know that because of the huge amount of care bears that we have to be or else someone might get their feelings hurt.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shiister

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero THM View Post
Agreed. I've never heard of people being banned in other games for telling someone how they feel about their ability to play the game. Smack-talk is a large part of gaming culture, and isn't going to go away, even if Mommy is in the room. Competitive games are full of all types of gamers, and not all of them are care bears who want to cry when someone says a mean thing. Why would we want to turn all of our players into that? Instead, why not grow up, accept that someone else can be a jerk without crying an entire **** river to the game creator, and play the game like adults?

I think it's pretty **** shameful that we have to have a Verbal Abuse and Verbal Harassment report system. It says a lot about us as a community that we are reduced to running and telling every time someone says something we don't like. And for the life of me I can never figure out why summoners who back this system like to be treated like children, but it's almost insulting to know that because of the huge amount of care bears that we have to be or else someone might get their feelings hurt.
Nobody wants to be treated like a child, they want to be treated like a human being with emotions and if you can't see that then don't play League of Legends, cause I rather have somebody who does badly in a game then someone who spends their time complaining and whining.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RiotTiza

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

eSports Coordinator

06-28-2012
3 of 8 Riot Posts

To respond to several comments at once:

Trash talk is okay in some communities and cultures - that doesn't make it okay in every community. For example, players on a football field (of the American variety) are constantly talking trash and getting into each other's heads (something I particularly enjoyed as a player), but that would never stand for a moment on a tennis court or golf course. Trash talk is in no way universally condoned. There are plenty of places where you're free to talk trash, insult teammates and opponents alike, and say whatever you want - I believe you can hear the rest of the internet constantly complain about those communities, although you can get a good chunk of upvotes for a picture of the bigger overreactions...

There are little-to-no hard and fast rules about what constitutes a ban - every case is reviewed individually, holistically, and independently. A Summoner is punished if and only if they are enough of a negative influence that a significant number of his or her peers will report them and a majority of Tribunal judges deem the Summoner's total record to be a detriment to the game. That's the framework - attempting to nail it down as "if you say X you will get banned" is not a fair way to look at it. Every case will be a different "big picture" reviewed by a different set of Summoners.

The great part about the Tribunal is that people don't get banned if one person is offended by something. People receive punishments from the Tribunal when multiple offenses stack up. The community is literally what's deciding what's inappropriate within the boundaries of the Summoner's Code, which you all agreed to before you first stepped onto the Fields of Justice. It takes a pretty large group to collect enough reports and judge the Tribunal case to actually turn into a punishment. Nobody is getting punished because a few people will report if somebody blinked at them funny. The majority has to be in alignment for a punishment to be passed down.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zero THM

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiister View Post
Nobody wants to be treated like a child, they want to be treated like a human being with emotions and if you can't see that then don't play League of Legends, cause I rather have somebody who does badly in a game then someone who spends their time complaining and whining.
Human beings have the ability to reason. Here's some for you.

Random joe thinks you suck at league of legends. He says," OMG Shiister so noob! GG, worthless player throws the game!"

It's at this point you have a choice.

1) Be butthurt about it. Take what he said deeply into your heart and let it affect you. Report him after game so that mommy can put him in timeout.

2) Realize that random joe is someone you'll never meet that knows nothing about you outside of this 30 minute game. Laugh to yourself about that and /ignore him if he continues. Feel like an adult because you acted like one.


The choice is always yours to act like an adult. After that game, you'll never have to see that player again. It's up to you to decide whether you're going to be a child and run to mommy, or be an adult and play the next game to win.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Irongrinder

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero THM View Post
Human beings have the ability to reason. Here's some for you.

Random joe thinks you suck at league of legends. He says," OMG Shiister so noob! GG, worthless player throws the game!"

It's at this point you have a choice.

1) Be butthurt about it. Take what he said deeply into your heart and let it affect you. Report him after game so that mommy can put him in timeout.

2) Realize that random joe is someone you'll never meet that knows nothing about you outside of this 30 minute game. Laugh to yourself about that and /ignore him if he continues. Feel like an adult because you acted like one.


The choice is always yours to act like an adult. After that game, you'll never have to see that player again. It's up to you to decide whether you're going to be a child and run to mommy, or be an adult and play the next game to win.
Spoiler alert! You can report people and not be butthurt about it at the same time!