Why do we still go for the bush?

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Qbr12

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Senior Member

06-26-2012

I'm sorry if I'm missing something that other people are finding obvious, but, what advantage DOES having an instant start on SR instead of granting a "buy timer" give? It seems to me that it ONLY punishes players who don't immediately know what to buy, or who take slightly longer to load in.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't giving this kind of an anti-noob advantage something that Riot tries to avoid?

I get that people are averse to change, and that pointless changes don't go over too well with the community, but this seems like an extremely minor inconvenience from a player's perspective, and a very significant help to newer players.


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George W Nome

Game Designer

06-26-2012
10 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kigrax View Post
ITT: RiotNome reveals his natural desire to make the game more casual. 4chan outrage and other news at 11.
I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I think I should address this anyway. There's a heavy stigma associated with casual nowadays, and almost everything that removes an inherent advantage between players is branded as pushing the game more towards the casual side. In this particular case, you have to ask "should startup lag and reaction time (reaction to the game starting), especially given longer load times, contribute to your early-game positioning?" And "does buying quickly constitute skill?"

For me, both of these are a resounding no.


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Dojoharmony

Junior Member

06-26-2012

gank the top bushes is far more effective and gets a kill almost every time

I once saw a shaco putting traps in the bush over the enemy bot turret, for some reason he got an ace out of it


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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

06-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Right, you guys are probably at a Elo that understands there's no direct value to taking the brush, aside from preventing the opponent from taking the brush. That's in line with the OP's reasoning, which questions the usefulness of the brush itself. It's a noob trap.
Fisr blood. If I know my team can win the 3v3 based on champs, sumomner spells etc. why not bait the fight anywhere, not just the bottom bush?

For me it isn't about the "taking of the bush" like I am William Wallace on a bender, it's about establishing that early game dominance that says "Stay the hell away if you want to live". Get that extra team gold, start with a couple of wards, boots and 3 pots etc.


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DrX6x

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Recruiter

06-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I think I should address this anyway. There's a heavy stigma associated with casual nowadays, and almost everything that removes an inherent advantage between players is branded as pushing the game more towards the casual side. In this particular case, you have to ask "should startup lag and reaction time (reaction to the game starting), especially given longer load times, contribute to your early-game positioning?" And "does buying quickly constitute skill?"

For me, both of these are a resounding no.
But what is skill is knowing were to go when you do have a slow start. such as far top bush.


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CrazyANinja23

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Junior Member

06-26-2012

i like the beginning gank idea tho, its the main action that goes on in the game untill about level 4+ from bottom, or 6+ from top, and depending on the teams, the gank can go from bottom, top, dragon side top or even mid bushes


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Lertan

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I think I should address this anyway. There's a heavy stigma associated with casual nowadays, and almost everything that removes an inherent advantage between players is branded as pushing the game more towards the casual side. In this particular case, you have to ask "should startup lag and reaction time (reaction to the game starting), especially given longer load times, contribute to your early-game positioning?" And "does buying quickly constitute skill?"

For me, both of these are a resounding no.
I agree, people should not be penalised for slow starting of games - especially as some people actually lag out entirely for the first few seconds.

I don't want to see a Dominion style start either, though. A small delay, or say 10s to let people buy, and then delaying all spawns by this time, would probably work nicely. Personally, I LIKE that you get a chance to establish your position before the minions spawn. It allows for more interesting game play, as that time is your own. Once minions are in lane, you cannot afford to be roaming around the jungle doing nothing, especially if the other team are in their lanes gaining XP and gold.

Also, we definitely custom quick item bars for champs. Poor supports who have to buy perhaps 3 different items (faery charm, wards and pots say), compared to someone grabbing a dorians.


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Modron

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Member

06-28-2012

actually, bot bush is important, more than people think.
First because without visibility skill shots the other team cant know how many enemies are hiding, so they will stay far from it zt the start, losing xp and if they get close they might engage in a 3 vs 2 wich probably is fb,
Second if you dont see the enemie coming, you are aware of a probably gank on another ush and avoid it, and losing the first minion wave can be game changing


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Lertan

Senior Member

06-28-2012

Modron, that isn't because of bottom bush that people will be cautious, it's because of a lack of intel. If a team is skittish enough to sit at tower missing xp/gold because other players are missing, then the same effect can be had by being AFK, or jungling, or sitting in some other bush.

The bottom bush rush is just a kind of "Hey, lets have a skrim while we wait, meet us at bot bush". There are better places to sit for a gank, as mentioned a few times, and safer ways to wait out the start. The only real reason to go there is for a fight.


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FortuitusFortune

Master Recruiter

06-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I think I should address this anyway. There's a heavy stigma associated with casual nowadays, and almost everything that removes an inherent advantage between players is branded as pushing the game more towards the casual side. In this particular case, you have to ask "should startup lag and reaction time (reaction to the game starting), especially given longer load times, contribute to your early-game positioning?" And "does buying quickly constitute skill?"

For me, both of these are a resounding no.
Buying quickly and positioning has been a huge part of almost every moba, it can mean a huge strategic advantage.