How can we improve Dominion's point system?

First Riot Post
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Profcory

Senior Member

06-25-2012

Here's my thought...while I'm not super experienced on Dominion, the games I have played indicate to me that much of your worth comes not just from what you do, but from what your force the enemy team to do.

Here's an example of how someone might not earn any points but still has a substantial impact. Suppose a stalemate around the top point, 4v4. The enemy team has control. Meanwhile, bottom, you excel versus the other pusher and continually threaten to capture their point. It gets bad enough that one of the top defenders has to come down to check your pushing, which opens up the enemy team to a disadvantage top.

Under the current system, though, here's who gets the points: your teammates, when they capture the windmill, and the guy you were abusing, because he gets points for "defending." Unless you score a kill on the guy, you get nothing, even though it was entirely because of your efforts that your team got the upper hand.

For this reason, I'm not sure any point system will be reflective of your contributions...a good dominion game is much like chess. You usually win not by making brilliant plays, but by gradually forcing your opponent into a mistake, or even better, into a lose-lose situation. It's hard to measure that kind of impact in a scoring system.

I've had games when I've been the losing pusher, where I'm getting abused the whole time and I look up to find I'm leading my team in points, because I've been hugging my capture point the entire time. If we *did* want to improve the point system, I would start there...it's just hard to judge when you're getting pushed around or when you're legitimately taking a stand against a potential capture.


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Catnium

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Senior Member

06-25-2012

imo the only way to make points have any meaning at all is to award extra ip for your score, the better your score the more bonus ip you get

also this would mean the point system it self needs improving

ill give some example's:
when ever i die i respawn and run to the top speed buff on my side of the map
By doing so i run passed the 1st capture point and gain 5 points for defending while im not even defending im just passing
Than later im defending top , i play say theemo and i'm placing a shroom at the hp buff i wont get anypoints for this at all while im actualy still defending top
i also get no points for pushing back a minion wave to defend my capture point , i also gai noting while im defending my point by being close to it and ganking someone just belowe in the fog of war

actualy i only gain defence points when im kinda camping almost ontop of my capture points


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George W Nome

Game Designer

06-25-2012
6 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnium View Post
imo the only way to make points have any meaning at all is to award extra ip for your score, the better your score the more bonus ip you get

also this would mean the point system it self needs improving

ill give some example's:
when ever i die i respawn and run to the top speed buff on my side of the map
By doing so i run passed the 1st capture point and gain 5 points for defending while im not even defending im just passing
Than later im defending top , i play say theemo and i'm placing a shroom at the hp buff i wont get anypoints for this at all while im actualy still defending top
i also get no points for pushing back a minion wave to defend my capture point , i also gai noting while im defending my point by being close to it and ganking someone just belowe in the fog of war

actualy i only gain defence points when im kinda camping almost ontop of my capture points
Platform/matchmaking is out of my scope, but hypothetically we'd need a very solid system to attach any account rewards to it.


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Doctor Swole

Member

06-25-2012

just give points for being alive or subtract for deaths


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Drewsome

Senior Member

06-25-2012

I would like to see the bonuses for sprees and mulit-kills removed. Why should players get move points for killing more people at a time... one would already receive points for the kill? And sprees? Rewarding staying a live is nice but why then is it only happening on staying alive and killing people.

These two bonus points always bugged me for some reason.


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JasmineChen

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Senior Member

06-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
I would prefer to get rid of it entirely.

However, if that is not an option, lowering some point values would be good such as the martyr bonus, and the bonus for capping and neutralizing a point. Also, maybe increase the amount for supporting a teammate, maybe then more people would be willing to fight together
This.

The work required to make score even sort of reflect good play really should be spent instead on some other part of the game.


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Arixa

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Recruiter

06-25-2012

Okay well here we go.


Actions that I think should be rewarded with points:

Capping a tower for your team.
Getting a quest.
Killing an enemy.
Assisting in a kill.
Successful defense of a point from an attack.(this involves killing enemies on the point or breaking a capture attempt and then the enemy not ending up turning the tower to their side)

These 5 things are pretty much always positive for your team. Sure you can chase down a kill instead of defending a point or something like that, but its still a contribution just a suboptimal one.

Things that currently give points that shouldn't:
Picking up stormshield, health, ect.
Standing on a point.
Dying.
Turning a point gray.
Killing minions.

These things are only contextually useful or not useful at all. I can suicide defend a point, die in 1 second and get a bunch of score for putting myself out of combat for 30seconds. Minions only matter if you are actively pushing. Graying out a point only marginally helps your team not lose points temporarily. Stormshield and other pick ups help you do other things that reward points and therefore shouldn't give points of their own.

I do not believe than any kind of strategy points can be awarded. Revive might be fotm right now but it might suck tomorrow. Backdooring could become the most important thing, or becomes a way to instantly lose. These kinds of strategy choices should not be rewarded. Your reward for a good strategy is a win.


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Catnium

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Senior Member

06-25-2012

Turning a point gray is actually a very tactical move
Sometimes you dont have time for a full cap but if you manage to gray a capture point you not only cut down the other teams decay on your nexus points but you often buy time with it as the other team will have to relocate player resources to recapture it or run the risk of the point being capped by a runner or even minions.

relocated player resources means that they don't have a full team ready to push one of your capture points and from personal experience its better to defend against 3 than against 4 if you catch my drift

it should award points


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Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R

Senior Member

06-26-2012

Dominion is a game about decision making. SR is a game about resource gathering. Because of this it harder to come up with an accurate scoring system for Dominion. The first step is to decide what are generally good decisions in Dominion. The next step is to determine a way for a computer to recognize a good decision.

Things that help you win the game:
Bringing revive
Using revive at the right time
Bottom lane winning (pushing hard, or getting kills)
Bottom lane surviving ganks
Bush whacking
Pushing minions without being ganked
Building well. Partially evaluated through combat (counter building POOTERS meta has low combat).
Winning team fights.
Using Garrison at clutch moments.
Getting jungle vision.
Successful ganks.
Winning the windmill fight
Protecting AD carries if you have any.
Setting up jungle ganks.
Getting more than one person to chase you.
Capturing the Storm shield.
Ganking people capturing the storm shield.

A few ideas on how to turn this into something a computer can recognize:

There should probably be a large score bonus to everyone but bottom lane if they won the windmill fight. This also rewards people for bringing revive.

In bottom lane whenever a team is out numbered the smaller team should get points. This rewards bottom lane for putting pressure and forcing a gank. Make sure they don't get the points until the enemy is visible. The longer one side is out numbered the higher score the defenders should get.

Anytime someone gets a kill in a 1v1 bottom lane they should get points. If the kill forces the enemy to send someone new bottom they should get more points. If they get a neutralize or a cap the bottom should get even more points.

Anytime a team kills a champion with out anyone dying they should get a bunch of points. This rewards people for ganking, brush whacking, jungle baits and so on. This is also a more elegant way of rewarding bottom lane for winning.

If a champion has 500 range or more she should get points for last hits. Tweak the numbers here so AD carries will want to farm, but will still want to team fight.


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Volandum

Senior Member

06-26-2012

Would displaying CS do any good? It does matter, though the number can be a bit misleading - I, for instance, often kill the caster minions but fail to last hit the super minion.