Philo Stone On Vladimir?

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Strill

Senior Member

06-20-2012

How good is Philosopher's stone on Vladimir? It seems to me like he'd make good use of the HP regen in lane early game when his Q is weak, and the gp10 would be gravy.


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Tiza

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eSports Coordinator

06-20-2012
1 of 3 Riot Posts

HP regen is definitely nice, and gives him a good pick-me-up in lane before he can The mana is useless to Vlad (and any manaless champion). I personally prefer to rush a Hextech Revolver, since it gives him huge amounts of lane sustain and keeps him happy for a long time. Vlad doesn't particularly benefit from either of the items that Philosopher's Stone builds into, either - his cooldowns are already really low, so Shurelya's isn't too helpful, and his pool gets him out of trouble spots when he's hit by soft CC (and in between waves of hard CC), making Elisa's Miracle less useful.


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Strill

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotTiza View Post
HP regen is definitely nice, and gives him a good pick-me-up in lane before he can The mana is useless to Vlad (and any manaless champion). I personally prefer to rush a Hextech Revolver, since it gives him huge amounts of lane sustain and keeps him happy for a long time. Vlad doesn't particularly benefit from either of the items that Philosopher's Stone builds into, either - his cooldowns are already really low, so Shurelya's isn't too helpful, and his pool gets him out of trouble spots when he's hit by soft CC (and in between waves of hard CC), making Elisa's Miracle less useful.
I don't disagree with the revolver, but what the heck are you saying about CDR? His cooldowns are low so he doesn't benefit from CDR? That's like saying that your AD carry's damage is already so high that doubling it isn't useful.

Getting to the CDR cap increases Vlad's DPS by 67%! You're saying that's not a worthwhile goal?


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godz raiden

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strill View Post
I don't disagree with the revolver, but what the heck are you saying about CDR? His cooldowns are low so he doesn't benefit from CDR? That's like saying that your AD carry's damage is already so high that doubling it isn't useful.

Getting to the CDR cap increases Vlad's DPS by 67%! You're saying that's not a worthwhile goal?
There are just many better item choices for late game when the laning phase is over and the game becomes team-fight and objective oriented. Vlad's damage is fine without a lot of CDR, and since to do the most damage you need to be in the middle of a fight with Vlad, getting items such as abyssal scepter and zhonya's hourglass as soon as your can benefits your team much more than having some CDR.

Also doubling your carry's damage isn't always useful. It's very common for AD carries to purchase guardian angel or quicksilver sash as a 5th or 6th item, sometimes even 4th depending on enemy team composition and whether or not enemies are jumping on them early in fights.


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Tiza

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06-20-2012
2 of 3 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strill View Post
I don't disagree with the revolver, but what the heck are you saying about CDR? His cooldowns are low so he doesn't benefit from CDR? That's like saying that your AD carry's damage is already so high that doubling it isn't useful.

Getting to the CDR cap increases Vlad's DPS by 67%! You're saying that's not a worthwhile goal?
No, it's not the same thing at all. It's about marginal utility - CDR is percentage-based, so it has a smaller effect on smaller numbers. 10% CDR on a 5 second cooldown is a .5 second benefit, versus a 1 second benefit on a 10 second cooldown, etc. Getting another point in any non-percentage stat (like AD, in your example), adds another point (although the damage reduction formulas make armor/MR fall somewhere in between).

CDR certainly isn't a bad thing on Vlad (or anybody, really), but it's not my main goal. I want to get my lane sustain up so I can win trades and become immovable from lane, then I want to bolster my AP so I hit like a truck (and get more sustain). I won't say no to free CDR, but I'd rather rush damage items after I pick up my Revolver/WotA (which also gives more AP).


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Strill

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotTiza View Post
No, it's not the same thing at all. It's about marginal utility - CDR is percentage-based, so it has a smaller effect on smaller numbers. 10% CDR on a 5 second cooldown is a .5 second benefit, versus a 1 second benefit on a 10 second cooldown, etc. Getting another point in any non-percentage stat (like AD, in your example), adds another point (although the damage reduction formulas make armor/MR fall somewhere in between).

CDR certainly isn't a bad thing on Vlad (or anybody, really), but it's not my main goal. I want to get my lane sustain up so I can win trades and become immovable from lane, then I want to bolster my AP so I hit like a truck (and get more sustain). I won't say no to free CDR, but I'd rather rush damage items after I pick up my Revolver/WotA (which also gives more AP).
Why does the absolute cooldown amount matter? Without CDR you cast 0.25 Transfusions per second, after you cast .416 Transfusions per second. Both your damage and sustain are increased.

CDR's use has nothing to do with the absolute cooldown of an ability. What matters is how many extra times CDR will allow you to use it. If it's a low cooldown ability that CDR allows you to use additional times in a given fight, CDR is strong on it no matter what its base cooldown is. Similarly if it's a high-cooldown ability that is on cooldown a lot, CDR is useful for it.

Saying -0.5 seconds is weaker than -1 seconds is like saying that going from 1.5 attack speed to 2.5 attack speed is weak because it's only a difference of 0.26 seconds. You totally missed the fact that it's a 67% DPS increase.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

06-20-2012

You sir, need to understand the situation first

While it is true that lower CDR highly benefits Vlad for long term sustain damage, high CDR without AP will result in NO DAMAGE. Which means that while you do have sustain damage, your burst will not be enough to take down any enemy, while they have a good chance to burst you down

Vlad doesn't have any crowd control (except his pool, which should be mostly saved for escape). Any enemy with one strong CC can easily take Vlad down to half health, and you will not regain that much health before they have their cooldown refreshed/ back up.


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Strill

Senior Member

06-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
You sir, need to understand the situation first

While it is true that lower CDR highly benefits Vlad for long term sustain damage, high CDR without AP will result in NO DAMAGE. Which means that while you do have sustain damage, your burst will not be enough to take down any enemy, while they have a good chance to burst you down

Vlad doesn't have any crowd control (except his pool, which should be mostly saved for escape). Any enemy with one strong CC can easily take Vlad down to half health, and you will not regain that much health before they have their cooldown refreshed/ back up.
I agree. For hit-and-run tactics and burst damage, AP is better. I'm just pointing out the fallacy in looking at CDR in terms of seconds reduced when what really matters is additional skill uses. It's like saying that going from 900 armor to infinite armor is weak because it's only a difference of 10% of the damage taken.


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XCodes

Senior Member

06-21-2012

The thing is, Vlad needs other items. He needs WotA, Rylai's, and probably also an Abyssal. Zhonya's seems like something you can get away with not having, but you'll definitely want a Deathcap. After boots, that leaves room for 1 item, and we've got 0% CDR so far.

I think if you really want some CDR, then the best item for that last slot would be a DFG, although there's also a strong case to be made for both Warmogs and Zhonya's.


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Lint Wizard

Senior Member

06-21-2012

hp regen is indeed nice, but Kage's Lucky Pick is the way to go if you want a gp10 item. With this year's changes and additions to the item, it is now more flexible and desirous than ever.

If you want a hp regen AND gp10, you might consider the Heart of Gold and building a Locket of the Iron Solari. It's entirely useful stats (as in no mana stuff) and achieves a lot of useful things in the right situation. It just doesn't build AP like Kage's Lucky Pick does.