TT Rant

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Exotic3s

Member

06-20-2012

Ummm? Turtling? Well when people turtle I smile and type: Lets go win follow me. Go tank the nexus turret let them hit you and just tnak the **** turret when you have a couple minions there. Than on the next push take nexus. Easy as that. And if you NEED and I mean REALLY NEED build a thorn mail and than go take the nexus turret. Only way you could not do that is if he other team had lots of huge cs.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gizaru

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
The solution to this won't just be to switch building positions (which we've already tried internally)
Is there anyway you could give a reason why the tower and nexus position switch doesn't lessen the problem?

I feel that there are some seemingly easy fixes that could stop the turtling issue. I don't know how the minions are programmed but it seems like it should be possible to make it so that if a minion is shot by the fountain laser that it could make it so all minions within a certain range will change target to the nearest structure for a specific amount of time. So if a minion gets hit by the fountain all the other minions will not aggro onto champions for 3 seconds. Something like this should significantly reduce the ability for a team to pull minions towards the fountain continuously.

Giving minions in 3v3 a 90% reduction from fountain damage could do the trick too.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Blue Lambency

Member

06-20-2012

I think the placement of the towers is fantastic, and makes for a good bit of fun. The only thing that needs fixing are the turret range bugs, and the RNG camps. (it's fine that they're RNG actually, but they need to give the same XP, and have similar power)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Riddíck

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Yep, that's one solution that's come up. I think I posted about it a few days ago as well.
95% of my games are on TT. I have probably played more TT games then most players in this game, and turtling has always been a factor. Maany games go beyond the 30 minute threshhold, and its seems like more and more games are having somewhat stale mates. If you push the enemy inhib, they out level or outfarm you despite you having control of the map. If you don't push in, no one farms and enemy sits in base until your so bored of the 40 minutes of the gamer you just kill in inhib. more and more, it becomes possible for 2 champions to defend the nexus turret against 3 enemy, making turtling easy. I have won many 2v3s, mainly because i knew some key elements. When your 2v3, turtling is pretty much impossible way to win. take your level advantage and use it against them. once everyone is level 18, whats ur advantage now?

My main point is this: Turtling is way too easy, only hard if you have some no cc ad carries for all 3 of your composition. With more and more champions having a push, pull, or knockback these days, TT gets more unwinnable with the turtling.
1 lee kick, 1 ali push, 1 singed fling, 1 blitz pull, one poppy knockback and ur into their nexus pool wishing you could end the turtling.

by the 30 minute marak, 90% of the time its clear which team is winning the game. A thought just occured to me; everyone has a grudge match at the 30 minute mark in a place where no one can run or hide, winner takes home the victory.

The winning team can easily defeat the opposing team in a battle for ace/win but never get the oppotunity because of the closeness of the pool in conjuction with the turret. For the sake of ending 75% of TT games by the predicted 30 minute mark, do something.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SorceryPower

Junior Member

06-20-2012

there is nothing wrong with TT or the turtling issue. it gives a team that is way behind a reason to still play the game. if you arent ahead enough to win, don't destroy the inhibitors. it is that simple.

people need to understand the map instead of trying to change it to suit their way of playing.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Riddíck

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SorceryPower View Post
there is nothing wrong with TT or the turtling issue. it gives a team that is way behind a reason to still play the game. if you arent ahead enough to win, don't destroy the inhibitors. it is that simple.

people need to understand the map instead of trying to change it to suit their way of playing.
after 30 minutes, why play the game? its supposed to be over. if you play a champion with a pull or push, your guranteed a turtling advantage. singed can fling people into the pool. bliz can pull them into it. its retardedly too easy.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SorceryPower

Junior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddck View Post
after 30 minutes, why play the game? its supposed to be over. if you play a champion with a pull or push, your guranteed a turtling advantage. singed can fling people into the pool. bliz can pull them into it. its retardedly too easy.
it is also pretty **** hilarious.

plus, all you need to do is stand as far away from the pool as possible, and keep minions around you.

however, like i said...this is pretty much irrelevant because if you don't destroy the inhibitors they are forced to come out of their base to farm and can be easily ganked. just keep this up until you are fed enough to finish their structures in one push.

dead blitz can't pull anyone.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Riddíck

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SorceryPower View Post
it is also pretty **** hilarious.

plus, all you need to do is stand as far away from the pool as possible, and keep minions around you.

however, like i said...this is pretty much irrelevant because if you don't destroy the inhibitors they are forced to come out of their base to farm and can be easily ganked. just keep this up until you are fed enough to finish their structures in one push.

dead blitz can't pull anyone.
that is logical yes, but its not like their 1200 elo or somethign... if they want to win there going to try as hard as they can. most aren't dumb enough to leave the base maybe me and you should play a game?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Snoop Nome

Game Designer

06-20-2012
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by sthorwall View Post
@RiotNome:
How difficult would it be to program a TT-specific effect in which the fountain simply doesn't harm minions?

Come to think of it, when in SR, or even Dominion, do you ever really fountain-kite minions anyway? Would Riot look at that as a universal mechanic? Fountain only zapping champs and pets?
I'm unwilling to create TT-specific mechanics that should be global due to burden of knowledge concerns. Minion pulling isn't really an issue on SR, but players generally expect the laser to attack everything. Either way, that's outside of what I can change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizaru View Post
Is there anyway you could give a reason why the tower and nexus position switch doesn't lessen the problem?

I feel that there are some seemingly easy fixes that could stop the turtling issue. I don't know how the minions are programmed but it seems like it should be possible to make it so that if a minion is shot by the fountain laser that it could make it so all minions within a certain range will change target to the nearest structure for a specific amount of time. So if a minion gets hit by the fountain all the other minions will not aggro onto champions for 3 seconds. Something like this should significantly reduce the ability for a team to pull minions towards the fountain continuously.

Giving minions in 3v3 a 90% reduction from fountain damage could do the trick too.
It creates some awkward champion pathing, decreases play space in the base, and while it slightly alleviates minion pulling, it does not solve the turtling issue. I've done a lot of internal analysis of different layouts, and the major contributors to turtling on TT are only partially in the base. A simpler solution will be to reduce the laser range.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eryn

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

06-20-2012

If they are turtling, stop killing their inhibitors. Farm in the jungle and get all the buffs. If you have to, 3 man dive their nexus, and even if all 3 of you die, if you destroy it and all your towers are up it's worth it.