TT Rant

First Riot Post
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Houston

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Just lost an hour long game we had in the bag at 30 minutes, We had destroyed their base turret and both turrets around either side while we had all of our turrets in tact. Other team had a rammus, runble, and shaco and they turtled hard They got free farm while inhibs were gone, then our fiora got tired of them turtling and left. Me(Shen) and annie tried to hold them back, but once they found out she was gone they rushed us and we lost.

TL;DR
Please fix the ability to turtle on TT! Extend the map, and push fountain away from nexus, or switch nexus turret and nexus position around so turtling isnt as easy.P.S. as we lost other team called us noobs and how badly we lost. We suck etc.....

Update: Also found on page 3
Would this work, switch the turret and nexus around and then put a bridge to the front turret in the jungle right in front of it. This would force them to come out of fountain to defend.
Also, might have to push the side turrets outward a bit because the front turret might be a little farther outward that the side turrets, confusing people the order in which u have to kill them. Maybe not?

Update:Rushed a crappy map to give example. The circled red paths are what i meant for adding bridges to jungle.

Update: Also found on page 6
Guys, lets think about this logically. What is the function of the turret? Its not there to clear minion waves, this is an unintended side effect of the map being so small. It is also not there to drag champions into for quick kills. Its purpose (from my understanding) is to have a completely safe place for you and your team. On summoners rift, the fountain can go an entire game without being used, because there is no reason for anyone to go back there. Something has to be done about the need for champions to even go near it. Changed pathing? Map extension? Move the fountain alltogether? I liked the idea of the bridge into the base in addition to switching around the turret and nexus position(Maybe because i proposed it). Now that i think about it, TT is the only map (Like there is a whole lot of them ) where the nexus is closer to the enemy base than the last turret needed to destroy said base. If you change the position of the base turret and the nexus then add a bridge to the base turret,this would eliminate the need for champions to even go back there thus eliminating the turtling issue!


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Boo

Senior Member

06-19-2012

sounds winnable


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pochoclotot

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Senior Member

06-19-2012

The best thing you can do to avoid turtling is either go for the final push as soon as you have the advantage or either start turtling yourself and try to lure them out of base.

I find that exploiting a mild advantage at around let's say the 30' mark is better than trying to extend said advantage and pretend to go for a final push at 50' when they had 20' of free farm.


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Axil

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Senior Member

06-19-2012

no qss
lol


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Snoop Nome

Game Designer

06-19-2012
1 of 4 Riot Posts

I've found that a big component of the turtling issue on Twisted Treeline likely stems from the meta. Without a ranged AD, pushing becomes much more difficult. The solution to this won't just be to switch building positions (which we've already tried internally), or extending the map (which actually makes it HARDER to push, as the travel time between bases is increased). There needs to be a more holistic design pass over the map.


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MoldyOnions

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I've found that a big component of the turtling issue on Twisted Treeline likely stems from the meta. Without a ranged AD, pushing becomes much more difficult. The solution to this won't just be to switch building positions (which we've already tried internally), or extending the map (which actually makes it HARDER to push, as the travel time between bases is increased). There needs to be a more holistic design pass over the map.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, and I don't play much TT so this could be a stupid idea, but would reducing the rate at which the fountain heals you be a partial solution to turtling until a long term fix is reached?


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Qbr12

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Senior Member

06-19-2012

I'm confused. What stopped you from, the moment you had all their turrets down and everyone there, recalling and healing and then pushing into their base?

The worst that could happen is you fight 3v3. If you were truly winning you should have been able to beat them there. If you weren't winning, then you wouldn't have won that game (turtling or not).

The problem seems to me like you just never pushed in for the win. You let them farm, you let them recover, and then you got screwed with a leaver. The solution here is to just push the moment you have that game-winning advantage.


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Blind Trooper

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Recruiter

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qbr12 View Post
I'm confused. What stopped you from, the moment you had all their turrets down and everyone there, recalling and healing and then pushing into their base?

The worst that could happen is you fight 3v3. If you were truly winning you should have been able to beat them there. If you weren't winning, then you wouldn't have won that game (turtling or not).

The problem seems to me like you just never pushed in for the win. You let them farm, you let them recover, and then you got screwed with a leaver. The solution here is to just push the moment you have that game-winning advantage.
A lot of the issue on the TT map is that minions can be dragged into the spawn point which quickly two shots the super minions and makes short work of the wave. The nexus turret is rather hard to destroy because it's right next to the the spawn point (which has a stupid long range)


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Borand

Senior Member

06-19-2012

I have had similar issues on TT.
Last game I remember, I played as Mundo, teammates were a Kata and a GP.
Enemy team Kog Maw, Olaf, Galio.

Kata carried hard, I followed up and became extremely tanky and GP, well... He kind of fed. Still, from 24' to about 60'sth we had them caged in their base (while clearing jungle and catching Olaf out of position), until they aced us 2 times mostly because of the *turtling* issue. They pushed and won, in a game about 75 mins long (should have been about 30mins).
End game chat: "omg noobs", "can't even play a game", "l2p", "come 1v1 ****ing noobs" etc.

It really feels bad to lose games like this. You should lose due to power difference, not because turtling is being favored in TT..


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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Trooper View Post
A lot of the issue on the TT map is that minions can be dragged into the spawn point which quickly two shots the super minions and makes short work of the wave. The nexus turret is rather hard to destroy because it's right next to the the spawn point (which has a stupid long range)
I can usually prevent half of my minions from being kited by walking between them and the fountain.

Half of the champs on a TT map can easily tank a tower through the 3 other champs while a ranged AD shreds it in seconds.


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