Welcome RiotNome!

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Lyrkey

Junior Member

06-16-2012

Greetings from Sweden! =) (I'm not at Dream hack :/)


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MetalcoreWolf

Senior Member

06-16-2012

I really enjoy Dominion and I play it 99% of the time. I hope we can work closely together


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Rebonack

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larkhill View Post
zhonyas was removed because it was the single best item for every single AP champ in the game. there was no situation where u didnt want to rush a zhonyas. when 1 item becomes that good for that many champs, its probably a problem.
But this wasn't true.

Z-Ring was cost ineffecent until you got around 80is AP if I recall correctly. On champions who wanted to feed high AP ratios it was usually a second item after RoA or what have you.

It was rushed on champions who needed to make use of its active, most notably Morg, Fiddles, and Kennen.

On the AD side of things Infinity Edge will always be the most cost effective way of increase auto-attack damage. In fact, Infinity Edge is so cost effective that stacking the thing is the best was to increase an auto-attacker's DPS. ESPECIALLY if they have any skills that scale with attack damage.

Yes, I know the passive doesn't stack. No, it doesn't matter. The stats that it grants are that absurd.


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Diagas

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Senior Member

06-16-2012

I'm excited for some new blood! Gives some hope that some change will happen now.


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larkhill

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebonack View Post
But this wasn't true.

Z-Ring was cost ineffecent until you got around 80is AP if I recall correctly. On champions who wanted to feed high AP ratios it was usually a second item after RoA or what have you.

It was rushed on champions who needed to make use of its active, most notably Morg, Fiddles, and Kennen.
so it was either a first or 2nd item for every single ap mage in the game. every time. no matter who u were facing. yea... thats not overpowered at all.

point is, if u use AP at all, u will have more than 80 AP fairly quickly, making z-ring top 3 best items for every single AP champion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebonack View Post
On the AD side of things Infinity Edge will always be the most cost effective way of increase auto-attack damage. In fact, Infinity Edge is so cost effective that stacking the thing is the best was to increase an auto-attacker's DPS. ESPECIALLY if they have any skills that scale with attack damage.

Yes, I know the passive doesn't stack. No, it doesn't matter. The stats that it grants are that absurd.

IE is nowhere near that effective for every single AD champ. is it good for a lot of them? sure. but for some, its useless. remember, a lot of AD champs r bruisers/tanky dmg dealers who dont really want crit. AP mages didnt have that issue. whether u were a squishy glass cannon annie, or a tanky morgana, u still wanted z-ring.

also, z-ring was the best defensive AND offensive item for mages. IE may be a great offensive item but it does nothing defensively and if u rush it, u'll quickly become a useless glass cannon.

z-ring was taken out because it provided no choice for the player. if u used AP in any way at all, u bought z-ring first or 2nd. need an early defensive item? z-ring. need an early offensive item? z-ring. need a hybrid? z-ring.

IE gives u a choice. do u want early dmg, or early survivability. do u risk rushing it and becoming a glass cannon? or do u play it safe and build something else...


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Rebonack

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Quote:
so it was either a first or 2nd item for every single ap mage in the game. every time. no matter who u were facing. yea... thats not overpowered at all.

point is, if u use AP at all, u will have more than 80 AP fairly quickly, making z-ring top 3 best items for every single AP champion.
Still not even close. If a champion had high AP ratios they needed to feed they would get the ring as a second item. Otherwise more magic pen, CDR, or even pure defensive items were often a wiser choice. On all but a select few Z-Ring was a late game item. If it was purchased at all.

Quote:
IE is nowhere near that effective for every single AD champ. is it good for a lot of them? sure. but for some, its useless. remember, a lot of AD champs r bruisers/tanky dmg dealers who dont really want crit. AP mages didnt have that issue. whether u were a squishy glass cannon annie, or a tanky morgana, u still wanted z-ring.
I was talking about auto-attackers >_> Rangers, specifically. If all a champ is interested in is raw AD then clearly IE isn't the best choice. But I'm talking about champions that want to maximize their auto-attack damage. Not their AD scaling skills.

Also back when Z-Ring still existed? Pure AP Annie was bad. Her high base damage and low AP ratios made for a great flat magic pen focused tanky champ. But since then Riot has decided to homogenize AP Champions and give them all high AP scaling.


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urmamasllama

Senior Member

06-16-2012

nome don't know if you guys are aware of it yet and this is fairly minor but for some odd reason the crystals aren't on the nexus at the start of the game anymore


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Phourc

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larkhill View Post
also, z-ring was the best defensive AND offensive item for mages. IE may be a great offensive item but it does nothing defensively and if u rush it, u'll quickly become a useless glass cannon.
Pretty much exactly this - I seem to recall riot actually stating they split it so that they could make new AP items that people would want to buy xP

Keep in mind it had the invincibility active, it'd be like if IE also included a thornmail ):


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Snoop Nome

Game Designer

06-17-2012
8 of 8 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by inFe eD View Post
I've heard similar reasoning in the past from other Rioters, and this has always made me curious: why is AD carry itemization allowed to be so linear (Infinity Edge + Dancer while stacking lifesteal/dorans is and has for a long time been the only viable route on all but a few edge case AD carries), while a similarly streamlined build for AP carries is judged to be harmful?
Other posters have already commented on it a little, but to add to it, Zhonya's is an incredible powerful item with an damage-aversive effect. It's a hard counter to several champions, and it also perfectly synergizes with others. As such, it's much more interesting gameplay-wise as a tactical pickup.


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Conncept

Senior Member

06-17-2012

Why exactly did this get banished to the Dominion forums? It's welcoming a new rioter who happens to be working on the dominion map, absolutely nothing in the forum rules dictates that this should have been moved from GD.