Elementz 5v5 Tier List (Draft Mode)

First Riot Post
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RiotFluf

VP of People

08-18-2010
12 of 50 Riot Posts

Elementz I'm having a really hard time seeing how Udyr is still high tier 2 for competitive play (seen him once in WCG so far, so maybe he's slipping?). I feel like he has a strong early/mid game, but late game falls off pretty dramatically relative to other similar jungle tank choices like amumu, shen, warwick, and even potentially Olaf. After 25+ mins into a game, and post locket nerf, I'm relegated to being a low damage stun bot with a shield that doesn't block enough damage to matter, and a built in sunfire cape.

for most comps, I feel Amumu, Shen and Warwick are stronger picks by a good margin.


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Kaye

Senior Member

08-18-2010

He's also one of the best gankers in the game, arguably, which means that you'll be able to push earlier, he's a great jungler, and can be built many different ways, and doesn't necessarily have to be a tank.
He can stun an entire team one after the other, continuously, if the team is stupid enough to let him, he can AoE and block damage ('Not enough to matter - Bull****.') - His tiger stance allows him to be versatile in going AD And also do AoE damage to a team/finish off people mid-game, and over all he's malleable enough to fit in anywhere - Even laning.
Yeah, laning.


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Pyros

Member

08-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluf View Post
Elementz I'm having a really hard time seeing how Udyr is still high tier 2 for competitive play (seen him once in WCG so far, so maybe he's slipping?). I feel like he has a strong early/mid game, but late game falls off pretty dramatically relative to other similar jungle tank choices like amumu, shen, warwick, and even potentially Olaf. After 25+ mins into a game, and post locket nerf, I'm relegated to being a low damage stun bot with a shield that doesn't block enough damage to matter, and a built in sunfire cape.

for most comps, I feel Amumu, Shen and Warwick are stronger picks by a good margin.
You noticed Amumu and Shen are tier1 and Warwick is also tier2 right? I mean you kinda sound like the rankings show that Udyr is better than those heroes, when it clearly shows the contrary. Yes there are better options, and they're tier1. I guess warwick isn't as high because of various counters to his ult(banshee, cleanse, stuns) but I don't think there was a question as to who you'd pick between amumu and udyr for your jungler for example, assuming amumu isn't banned.


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TheGoodLife

Senior Member

08-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elementz View Post
I start at golem and go small camp to wraiths to top camp and go back to base and heal. Im pretty sure thats not the most effective way to jungle shen but you can do it.

I go Q,W,Q,E,E,R.. Then max out E then W.

Runes armor pen reds, dodge or HP yellows. I personally like MR blues and HP quints or MS quints..

I know its kinda vague but I hope it helps.
Elementz, what do you think how will Shen be after the nerfs (After he uses ult, he doesnt get his shield, only his ally does. I read that on leaguecraft forums. I think he will drop at least to tier 2.

But my opinion doesnt matter


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Tonixion

Senior Member

08-19-2010

I don't think the change to his ult will do much to his placing. A good shen never uses his ult to run away, because a good shen usually isn't caught in any such situation. I mean, it obviously happens... but if you're going to die, don't try to ult out and waste a cooldown. I'm sure this will discourage this more, and also discourage Shen's from overextending in general.

His core concept is still intact--Every time his ult is up, somebody will not die when they should and get gold for it. Only now he'll actually start to be hurt by... things in general.

**** Shen is tanky.


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Darge

Member

08-19-2010

Elementz, do you think that a team composition consisting of:
AP Nidalee (HotShotGG's build), AP Anivia, AD Ezreal, tank rammus, tank garen will be able to win games? How should we play it? Should ezreal go mid? Tell us as much as possible please


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Groxa

Junior Member

08-19-2010

my question is why Galio is so low?
why i think he should be higher?
hes ulti is just amazing taunting ppl for 2,5 s. dealing dmg is just too amazing, it allows other champs (especially nukers) to show, for example: annie stun with ulti, fiddle, which it can be decisive. I played many games with amumu and i think galio ulti may be even better. Why? Amumu ulti may be "flashed" away, and they are standing where they were, galio gathers them together.
but ulti is not the only skill which are good. With resolute smite and later, when he have more mana regen, with gust he can harass ppl giving them hard time on the lane. His shield has many uses. After successful teamfight when u lack hp(because of ulti ) and your team pushing creeps to attack turrets you can put it on your teammates to heal urself also you can defend some1 giving him 90 armor and magic resists for 4 sec!!! Combined with smite (slow) and gust can save some1 from your team being killed. Also gust can help your team to chase some1 with smite which have quite a big range(900) and 40% slow for 2,5 s might be enough to give ur team chance to catch up to some1 who is trying to escape + when ur team have hard time to kill u can try to escape with smite (slow opponents) and gust to run away
its just my opinions and waiting for ur response. dont flame me and thx for ur reply

p.s. sorry for my english
#edit
and i mean galio tank build, not full AP or full MR :] it just sux because hes dmg will not be big, hes not a caster or smth ;]


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Hamalol

Junior Member

08-19-2010

Hey Elementz, can't say how much time I've spend reading through your tier list, and the insights you've given people so far on the placement. Galio was recently patched, and I was wondering if you could give some feedback on him, as in why he is placed in tier 3.

Thanks in advance!


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NessOnett

Senior Member

08-19-2010

Elementz, can you explain further on Cho'gath? you say that he's outclassed as a tank by xxx due to yyy, but as far as a mage you simply state that he's bad. Can you please elaborate as to WHY he's a bad caster? He has higher survivability than most, better AP ratios than most, autoattacks that actually DO something(for when his spells are on CD), multiple forms of CC(which is rare), and 3/4 of his skills are AOE damage. Not to mention a high-damage low CD ult that ignores MR. You can say his Rupture is unreliable/hard to land, but it really isn't even against good opponents.


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Krackor

Senior Member

08-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by NessOnett View Post
Elementz, can you explain further on Cho'gath? you say that he's outclassed as a tank by xxx due to yyy, but as far as a mage you simply state that he's bad. Can you please elaborate as to WHY he's a bad caster? He has higher survivability than most, better AP ratios than most, autoattacks that actually DO something(for when his spells are on CD), multiple forms of CC(which is rare), and 3/4 of his skills are AOE damage. Not to mention a high-damage low CD ult that ignores MR. You can say his Rupture is unreliable/hard to land, but it really isn't even against good opponents.
The ranges on his spells kind of require him to be in the front lines for maximum impact, yet built as a mage he's far too easy to kill. Once he does get killed, it takes a while for him to build up feast stacks again, so either he comes to the next fight late, or he comes on time but even squishier than he was before.

Anivia, Annie, Ryze, Veigar, etc. all can come back at full strength after a death, and can use range and hard cc to stay alive in a teamfight.

Also, while he does have 2 decent cc's, neither of them will protect him from a melee bearing down on him, which while built as a mage will easily ruin his day. The other more viable mages all have some kind of anti-melee cc: anivia's stun, annie's stun, ryze's snare, morgana's snare, veigar's stun.

As far as damage output goes, he's far more one-hit-wonderish than other mages due to the long cooldowns on Rupture and Feral Scream. If your combo isn't enough to kill someone, your admittedly decent auto attacks won't be as good as an annie or ryze throwing their low cooldown spells again after a couple seconds.