Ciderhelm's impressions on Darius

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PorpoiseAlert

Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerzy View Post
You wanna talk about badass? Your HIGHEST was 1248, as in you couldn't even scratch bronze despite your best efforts.
I have yet to make an argument from authority about how someone else is a scrub due to their ****ty elo in comparison to mine. My elo is awful. I also happen to have the exact same W - L that you do.

Those who live in glass houses...


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BACKSTABUUU

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Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerzy View Post
Let's see, the person I was talking about was the one who's impressions this thread is about. Which would make it rather relevant to this thread.
And what makes you think your lame excuses couldn't apply to him?

You obviously think elo's not a true indicator of what you know about the game when it's being used against you, but suddenly it is when you're talking about someone else?


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AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavderion View Post
jerzy es #1 entertainer in this thread
'sup smurf?


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Xavderion

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mipesuves View Post
'sup smurf?
This is no smurf, I just don't play on NA. EUW is my home


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jerzy

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorpoiseAlert View Post
I have yet to make an argument from authority about how someone else is a scrub due to their ****ty elo in comparison to mine. My elo is awful. I also happen to have the exact same W - L that you do.

Those who live in glass houses...
What authority?

Oh look another idiot bringing up the whole W-L thing again. Too bad W-L doesn't mean jack.


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AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavderion View Post
This is no smurf, I just don't play on NA. EUW is my home
That's... still called a smurf as this is a secondary account...


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jerzy

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by die4769 View Post
And what makes you think your lame excuses couldn't apply to him?

You obviously think elo's not a true indicator of what you know about the game when it's being used against you, but suddenly it is when you're talking about someone else?
No, I think it's pretty accurate. Still doesn't mean it's static. You talking about it like it's a static number is laughable at best.


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CertainlyT

Champion Designer

05-27-2012
1 of 8 Riot Posts

Hi everybody, CertainlyT here.

First off, I don't think anyone's elo is relevant to this discussion, for a few reasons:
First, we have a populist design mentality -- LoL isn't for the top 1%, it's for everyone to have a great time playing;
Second, one's elo is not a perfect measure of one's understanding of the game. We observe that a lot of top players succeed due to amazing mechanics.

As to Darius being a toxic influence because he deprives his teammates of kills, I think that point has some merit. We discussed it internally several times during Darius's development cycle. We concluded that the benefits of an ultimate like his (in terms of sheer epicness and diversity amongst ultimates) was worth the cost, even if it did "steal the spotlight" from teammates on occasion. It is not something we intend to put on many future champions, perhaps none ever again. We justified our decision to give Darius his ult on a few factors:

1. Our community is continually maturing. Players have the savvy to look beyond KDA to assess their contribution to their team's success. They feel good when they heal their teammates, make defensive plays, coordinate their CC, etc. We think Darius players will know that it wasn't solely their own efforts that got them that double kill and Darius teammates will know that it wasn't just Darius doing damage in a team fight.
2. Once Darius has a few months under his belt and his popularity inevitably wanes a bit, this will be less of an issue since you'll have fewer teammates as Darius on a per game basis. Most posts from those frustrated by Darius are those who seem to be seeing him game after game after game. It's important to think about game health not in terms of momentary snapshots, but long term.
3. Darius's eventual role in team fight scenarios is fundamentally altruistic, probably in the mid-field using Apprehend+Crippling Strike to peel diving bruisers for his ranged AD/mages and follow up on those champs' DPS with an armor ignoring finisher. He doesn't have the defensive steroids or the mobility to leap straight onto enemy carries in the same way Irelia, Jarvan, or Jax can. Even as a tanky man, he is a dps soak -- enemies are encouraged to burn him down to stop his kill chain, shifting focus from squishy targets.
4. Darius is a great candidate for aura items. He benefits dramatically from Reverie for the burst of MS so he can position himself for that speed boosting Q, Randuin's for the slow to let him manage his Crippling Strike a bit better, and Aegis of the Legion for the balanced defensive stats it gives. That gold he "KS'd" can and should be put to good use. I don't think you will see many Bloodthirster wielding Darius's in 1-2 months. I know I feel at ease when the guy that grabbed the kills in an early teamfight puts that gold toward an item designed to help us win the second (Internally, the running joke about me is that I insist the first team to buy an Aegis wins).
5. Darius doesn't just kill steal -- his ult is a lot of the power on his kit and contributes to sealing a great many kills where the enemy might otherwise have escaped or continued dealing damage for some time. I think from all the "Darius OP" threads we can agree that he certainly holds his own on the battlefield at the moment. If his ult was some sort of Blitzcrank passive that automatically zapped any champion below 200 health, then you'd have a stronger point.

I hope that clarifies our reasoning for Darius's ult a bit. This game is a complicated and wonderful beast. If every champion's kit was hardwired to have their kill total reflect their total contribution to kills, it would require pruning a lot of abilities from the game (all % missing health effects, mundo's cleaver too!, etc.). The resultant lack of diversity would be a loss to our players as a whole.


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Velocity

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Senior Recruiter

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
Hi everybody, CertainlyT here.

First off, I don't think anyone's elo is relevant to this discussion, for a few reasons:
First, we have a populist design mentality -- LoL isn't for the top 1%, it's for everyone to have a great time playing;
Second, one's elo is not a perfect measure of one's understanding of the game. We observe that a lot of top players succeed due to amazing mechanics.

As to Darius being a toxic influence because he deprives his teammates of kills, I think that point has some merit. We discussed it internally several times during Darius's development cycle. We concluded that the benefits of an ultimate like his (in terms of sheer epicness and diversity amongst ultimates) was worth the cost, even if it did "steal the spotlight" from teammates on occasion. It is not something we intend to put on many future champions, perhaps none ever again. We justified our decision to give Darius his ult on a few factors:

1. Our community is continually maturing. Players have the savvy to look beyond KDA to assess their contribution to their team's success. They feel good when they heal their teammates, make defensive plays, coordinate their CC, etc. We think Darius players will know that it wasn't solely their own efforts that got them that double kill and Darius teammates will know that it wasn't just Darius doing damage in a team fight.
2. Once Darius has a few months under his belt and his popularity inevitably wanes a bit, this will be less of an issue since you'll have fewer teammates as Darius on a per game basis. Most posts from those frustrated by Darius are those who seem to be seeing him game after game after game. It's important to think about game health not in terms of momentary snapshots, but long term.
3. Darius's eventual role in team fight scenarios is fundamentally altruistic, probably in the mid-field using Apprehend+Crippling Strike to peel diving bruisers for his ranged AD/mages and follow up on those champs' DPS with an armor ignoring finisher. He doesn't have the defensive steroids or the mobility to leap straight onto enemy carries in the same way Irelia, Jarvan, or Jax can. Even as a tanky man, he is a dps soak -- enemies are encouraged to burn him down to stop his kill chain, shifting focus from squishy targets.
4. Darius is a great candidate for aura items. He benefits dramatically from Reverie for the burst of MS so he can position himself for that speed boosting Q, Randuin's for the slow to let him manage his Crippling Strike a bit better, and Aegis of the Legion for the balanced defensive stats it gives. That gold he "KS'd" can and should be put to good use. I don't think you will see many Bloodthirster wielding Darius's in 1-2 months. I know I feel at ease when the guy that grabbed the kills in an early teamfight puts that gold toward an item designed to help us win the second (Internally, the running joke about me is that I insist the first team to buy an Aegis wins).
5. Darius doesn't just kill steal -- his ult is a lot of the power on his kit and contributes to sealing a great many kills where the enemy might otherwise have escaped or continued dealing damage for some time. I think from all the "Darius OP" threads we can agree that he certainly holds his own on the battlefield at the moment. If his ult was some sort of Blitzcrank passive that automatically zapped any champion below 200 health, then you'd have a stronger point.

I hope that clarifies our reasoning for Darius's ult a bit. This game is a complicated and wonderful beast. If every champion's kit was hardwired to have their kill total reflect their total contribution to kills, it would require pruning a lot of abilities from the game (all % missing health effects, mundo's cleaver too!, etc.). The resultant lack of diversity would be a loss to our players as a whole.
That's a lot of words


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PallasAthens

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mipesuves View Post
And you said it's not the champion, but the player. So from this logic Release Xin was massively balanced. Hell, every champion from every stage of that said champion's life was balanced. No matter how "bad" or "OP" they're classed by the community or the makers.
Actually, the developers agreed that Release Xin was too strong when they released him. A year and a half ago. Now, there's different people working on champions.

Varus wasn't touched, Lulu was barely touched, and generally they've had solid releases lately.

Again, you can argue what you want about what happened last year(Actually...closer to two years) but that doesn't pertain to now.