Change Darius ult to deal physical damage.

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Salamander Joe

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyunx View Post
I don't know if it has been posted, but what about making the CD 5 seconds when killing an enemy with R, and change the AD scaling damage to physical or magical?
I like the 5 seconds thing... Give me a chance to get the heck out.


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CertainlyT

Champion Designer

05-24-2012
2 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeburn View Post
Why would a Darius only have 60 AD at level 16 if he's a champion that's supposed to be offensive first?

Making it deal true damage just seems like an awful lot of hand holding for the player.
60 AD seemed reasonable for a bruiser type. Often they can afford only one offensive item. Change the number to whatever realistic value you want and it will still fall off hard due to late game armor values in our game.

Regarding him being my champion, I find that most designers are like myself: we are more worried about game health as a whole than our own champion. I would not have released him, and my peers would not have let me release him, unless we were certain that play and counterplay determined the outcome of most Darius engagements.


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9Point

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
60 AD seemed reasonable for a bruiser type. Often they can afford only one offensive item. Change the number to whatever realistic value you want and it will still fall off hard due to late game armor values in our game.
Wow.
Well ok.
I get it now. Now i understand why he is the way he is.
Brusiers* which Darius is can only afford one offensive item.


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Bloodhawk360

Junior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
We made Darius's ult true damage for a two primary reasons:
First, we wanted the Darius player to have some certainty over whether his ultimate would land a killing blow. Physical damage mitigation varies widely across champions and builds. It was extremely "mathy" to have to calculate what health was needed to score a kill.

Second, we wanted to make sure Darius's ult did not kill squishy ranged ADs and mages from full with low bleed stacks. When the ult was physical, the damage had to be so high to make it feel good against, say Renekton, that it was abusive versus Caitlyn. Notice that in the example you gave, Darius's lvl 3 Noxian Guillotine at max stacks with 60 bonus AD would be doing something like 300 physical damage to a lvl 18 Renekton with a Randuins and an Aegis.
Except now you created a monster that still gets stacks easy on carries. All you have to do is get to the carry, heck even flash, then drop a combo, if done right that's an easy 3 stacks right away, two more auto's you are at 5, slap an ignite and ult and thats easily over 1400 true dmg. Oh, and it just refreshed too.

Also, his laning is crazy strong. Sure, he doesn't have the sustain, but when he hits 6 and has ignite up all you can think is "Well better not drop to 50% hp or I will die instantly".

Riven may have a crazy lane phase, but atleast I can stack some armor against her to leviate alot of the pain. Health items are ineffective counters because of the sheer cost of anything wortwhile that has enough health to be useful, when you are already zoned from a 1k+ true dmg player.

If you have even made it this far in my rant, Ill go ahead and say this. True damage is literally the single most ignorant thing to add to this game. Don't even get me started on vayne's true damage, why do you think she becomes hyper carry at 6 items. Why do you think Olaf has a broken as hell laning phase, why do you think irelia can still do some crazy good trades. HMMM MAYBE THEY ALL HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON.


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SubToMeOnYoutube

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
60 AD seemed reasonable for a bruiser type. Often they can afford only one offensive item. Change the number to whatever realistic value you want and it will still fall off hard due to late game armor values in our game.

Regarding him being my champion, I find that most designers are like myself: we are more worried about game health as a whole than our own champion. I would not have released him, and my peers would not have let me release him, unless we were certain that play and counterplay determined the outcome of most Darius engagements.


To bad no one plays him bruiser :P Everyone goes tanky damage like 3.5k hp and 350 ad, at least every one I have seen and me myself do this. Also tons of lifesteal usually.


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9Point

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
60 AD seemed reasonable for a bruiser type. Often they can afford only one offensive item. Change the number to whatever realistic value you want and it will still fall off hard due to late game armor values in our game.

Regarding him being my champion, I find that most designers are like myself: we are more worried about game health as a whole than our own champion. I would not have released him, and my peers would not have let me release him, unless we were certain that play and counterplay determined the outcome of most Darius engagements.
Actually..
One more thing.
For a bruiser that is "suppose" to only be able to afford one item because he needs armor, why does he have the highest base armor?


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Yenn

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Bruisers usually (always?) end up with at least +110-120 AD at mid game. I can't think of any bruisers I've seen with less than +100 AD.


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CertainlyT

Champion Designer

05-24-2012
3 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenn View Post
This is possibly the most ridiculous post I've ever read and only goes to further prove that the designers no longer have have any idea what they're doing. It's unfortunate that being a game designer doesn't have any requirements.

Making players think is a horrible thing. Players shouldn't have to get a feel for their champion's damage in order to perform well. That's not fun. In fact, let's make Garen's ult true damage, because it's unfair to make players figure out how much health enemies have to be at to kill them.

And while we're at it, let's make every ult true damage, too. Because when I'm playing Fiora and I ult the enemy armor stacking Renekton, it just doesn't feel good, and it's too abusive when I ult Caitlyn. Better yet, let's make all damaging ults true damage, so they feel good!

No, seriously.
I think you omit an important factor: Darius's ult is lackluster without bleed stacks. The Darius player has to plan out in advance of ulting who the best target is and begin "banking" ult damage on them. Garen does not.


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Yenn

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
I think you omit an important factor: Darius's ult is lackluster without bleed stacks. The Darius player has to plan out in advance of ulting who the best target is and begin "banking" ult damage on them. Garen does not.
I haven't played or seen Darius, because he's permanently banned from ranked and I don't play normal.

My problem is with the justification.


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Keyaithewarrior

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
We made Darius's ult true damage for a two primary reasons:
First, we wanted the Darius player to have some certainty over whether his ultimate would land a killing blow. Physical damage mitigation varies widely across champions and builds. It was extremely "mathy" to have to calculate what health was needed to score a kill.
Aaaaannnnndddd what about that Garen guy?

EDIT: Between Hex/Maw, Abyssal, Quicksilver, MR ect and the flipping cast time on his ult, its RIDICULOUS