Morello I have a lot of hateful complaints for you tonight.

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Whackie

Senior Member

03-15-2012

I don't agree, nor care for the "ad caster" item, because it's going to come out grotesquely overpowered.

However, the level 2 ganks and force trades I do agree with. It's really irritating when I see the enemy has Shaco, Lee Sin, Maokai, Shyvana, etc because you KNOW the ganks will come, but you KNOW you'll be lightyears behind. The biggest problem with this is, if they camp you, you're potentially zoned for the first 3-4 waves and if you even make an attempt, you give up first blood. With that said, if they make an appearance, or show presence in the first 2 levels, you don't know if they're still in the bush or not, so they can be zoning you without them even being there.

As for your sustain and trades arguement, yes, Udyr and Lee Sin are quite hard to deal with sometimes, but you can manage them. What is really a problem in top lane sustain wars is Wriggle's Lantern. That use to be a jungle item which helped the junglers scale through the camp killing / objectives. Now, it's being abused as a cheap sustain item that gives you decent mitigation, a free ward and immense sustain. I don't find Lee Sin, nor Udyr being the root of the problem though.

I honestly think they need to fix the shared exp among more than 1 laner. It's really irritating how a jungler can camp a brush, and stay above in levels than you just because you're getting zoned and he's leeching some of his teammate. IT's also irritating when you counter jungle someone and they cover a lane while the laner backs for 30 seconds and be caught up in levels with ease. They need to fix that.


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Morello

Lead Designer

03-15-2012
1 of 1 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
1. AD caster item. Not going further than that.

2. The brush next to lanes from river that makes it impossible to get CS at level 1-3 as a melee champion since junglers can just camp in it. Blue side melee top lane basically has to give up 15 CS to avoid getting first blooded since they can't even SEE someone in melee range of them.

3. Level 2 jungler ganks in general. Why have they been allowed to stay so powerful?

4. The #1 cause of a lane with no action is that one side has no chance to trade even near evenly. As such, why are champions like Udyr/Lee Sin allowed to exist as they are when they can NEVER be traded with in lane successfully? All they do is force one side to never even think of fighting, and the other side to not want to overextend.

5. Sup with the whole blue buff situation? Blue buff is basically scaling for mages that can be stolen. It sucks for everyone involved.
1. AD caster item incoming this patch (I think!)

2. It's late and this is hard to think about right now :x

3. We're hitting one of those this patch, with another we think will be better. We're OK with this existing, but it has to be a little less egregious.

4. Is a matter of fighter sustain imbalances, also addressed in this patch


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Felie

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay L Bate View Post
I don't agree, nor care for the "ad caster" item, because it's going to come out grotesquely overpowered.

However, the level 2 ganks and force trades I do agree with. It's really irritating when I see the enemy has Shaco, Lee Sin, Maokai, Shyvana, etc because you KNOW the ganks will come, but you KNOW you'll be lightyears behind. The biggest problem with this is, if they camp you, you're potentially zoned for the first 3-4 waves and if you even make an attempt, you give up first blood. With that said, if they make an appearance, or show presence in the first 2 levels, you don't know if they're still in the bush or not, so they can be zoning you without them even being there.

As for your sustain and trades arguement, yes, Udyr and Lee Sin are quite hard to deal with sometimes, but you can manage them. What is really a problem in top lane sustain wars is Wriggle's Lantern. That use to be a jungle item which helped the junglers scale through the camp killing / objectives. Now, it's being abused as a cheap sustain item that gives you decent mitigation, a free ward and immense sustain. I don't find Lee Sin, nor Udyr being the root of the problem though.

I honestly think they need to fix the shared exp among more than 1 laner. It's really irritating how a jungler can camp a brush, and stay above in levels than you just because you're getting zoned and he's leeching some of his teammate. IT's also irritating when you counter jungle someone and they cover a lane while the laner backs for 30 seconds and be caught up in levels with ease. They need to fix that.
But if their jungler is camping you, your jungler has a chance to take his jungle and gank other lanes. You lose a little @ top, but your team benefits elsewhere.


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Asko

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
1. AD caster item incoming this patch (I think!)
3. We're hitting one of those this patch, with another we think will be better. We're OK with this existing, but it has to be a little less egregious.

4. Is a matter of fighter sustain imbalances, also addressed in this patch
ill give you a good night kiss for this

best patch ever inc!


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undercover sbz

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
warding at level 1?

Also, giving up 15 CS early game is sort of a big deal. Its why every tournament the first action is always trying to gank blue's top. Blue top is the most gankable lane in the game, its kinda absurd.
cloth +2x pots +1ward


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TherIsNoUrfLevel

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felie View Post
But if their jungler is camping you, your jungler has a chance to take his jungle and gank other lanes. You lose a little @ top, but your team benefits elsewhere.
Against certain matchups, that jungler zoning you for the first 3 levels loses the entire lane for you, and if the jungler knows that, he can easily exploit it and set you back by a mile.

Sure, your jungler is free to gank other lanes, but that won't nearly be as successful unless:
1. Your jungler can clear quick enough and gank successfully
2. The lane matchups exist in such a way that increases the ease of snowballing for your mid/bot lane.


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Whackie

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felie View Post
But if their jungler is camping you, your jungler has a chance to take his jungle and gank other lanes. You lose a little @ top, but your team benefits elsewhere.
That's a high risk, low-medium reward though. Sure, you can take his wraiths, and his golems, and if you clear the whole camp; it'll respawn by the time he's back. If you take the big ones and leave one small one, it's not really going to set him back because he's already absorbing exp from the lane. If you manage to catch one of his big buffs (blue/red) then it'll be ok- but how many times does that happen. All of this is occuring, while you're waltzing into the enemy jungle and can be caught easily anytime.


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Cuix

Senior Member

03-15-2012

This is a big patch, it seems.


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JuanDeages

Senior Member

03-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
1. AD caster item. Not going further than that.

2. The brush next to lanes from river that makes it impossible to get CS at level 1-3 as a melee champion since junglers can just camp in it. Blue side melee top lane basically has to give up 15 CS to avoid getting first blooded since they can't even SEE someone in melee range of them.

3. Level 2 jungler ganks in general. Why have they been allowed to stay so powerful?

4. The #1 cause of a lane with no action is that one side has no chance to trade even near evenly. As such, why are champions like Udyr/Lee Sin allowed to exist as they are when they can NEVER be traded with in lane successfully? All they do is force one side to never even think of fighting, and the other side to not want to overextend.

5. Sup with the whole blue buff situation? Blue buff is basically scaling for mages that can be stolen. It sucks for everyone involved.
Add Yorick to #4 and /Singed.


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Demonik187

Senior Member

03-15-2012

When will this patch be implemented? Sounds great!


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