@ Xypherous. It has to be said,

First Riot Post
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Anduraga

Senior Member

03-04-2012

I feel like the only thing Nautilus needs is a slightly increased movement speed or a base armor buff. The fact that hes so slow for a melee and has terrible base armor, his starting role can be a bit ambiguous.

He's still a fun champ though.

As a side note, I feel untargetability in League could use a slight change in mechanics. Why is it that they can dodge abilities that are already locked onto them? Some of the untargetability does require some skill to dodge: Shaco, LB (more like luck with her worthless passive), Fizz and a few others. It just feels kind of unfair for Nautilus and Fizz to ult Fiora and she cam completely ignore it by ulting on someone...

If it stays that way, I'm fine with it. Simply add Fiora, Fizz, Vlad to the champions not to ult along with spell shielders.


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juzzthedude

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Xypherous, I remember you saying in a thread that you had planned Nautillus to either go as a support/jungle/top. But I feel like the only thing preventing Nautilus from being a support on par with Leona and Blitzcrank is his base armor. The same thing for Sejuani. I feel like their base armor is so low, that I get completely shutdown by just a few of my enemies AA. Is there any reason to that? It just kinda feels counter intuitive to be playing a huge tank like Sejuani and Nautilus, but have them to be so deceptively weak at earlier levels.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-04-2012
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
You mention Sejuani and Ashe ultimates. Both of those can be dodged completely by flash. There is counterplay. Dazzle and Cryptic Gaze are single target CC that can be countered by positioning, and to a lesser extent flash. Nautilus' ult (name?) doesn't really have counterplay. You click it on someone and they are screwed. They can eat the CC, or they can burn a summoner, potentially CC other members of their team by fixing their positioning, and still eat the CC, which is a knockup so is not effected by tenacity.
I intended the counterplay portion of Nautilus' to not be about evasion - but negating its effect after it lands. If you are CC'ed at your tower or at the edge of a team-fight - you're not in any real danger at that point.

The actual major CC component of Nautilus' ultimate on the primary target is a stun - which can be reduced by tenacity. The stun starts as soon as you get hit, so the 0.5 second knockup on the primary target is mostly cosmetic (unless you have above 50% tenacity at rank 1 or 75% tenacity at rank 3)

If you find yourself the primary target of Nautilus' CC most of the time, Merc Treads will reduce the amount of time you are disabled significantly.

That said, I do agree that skillshot CC's have more counterplay.

Quote:
Also, what do you think of Leona's Q when compared to Nautilus' passive? They apply similar levels of CC, but Nautilus' can be applied more quickly to more people at the start of a fight, where it matters the most. On top of that, Nautilus has a CC ability for his Q, which is superior to Leona's E. Nautilus also has a slow, and more reason to focus him over Leona meaning he serves as a better tank, minus the steroid, with slightly superior amounts of teamfight disruption and initiation, which is what Leona is supposed to excel at.
Leona's Q is a stun - which is much better at shutting down return fire - especially against mages. Roots don't inhibit your abilities to apply offensive spells - nor do roots interrupt channels. Rooting a mage doesn't really inhibit their ability to unleash their barrage, for example.

I'm not sure Leona was supposed to excel at disruption and initiation as her dominant focus - I say this mostly because the Sunlight passive strongly pushes Leona's role as being contributing damage in a fight, rather than CC effects. This is why Leona's bot kill-lane or gank scenarios are so much stronger, for example, as multiple sunlight procs means she's a much better damage contributer in her initiation combo - especially in a gank scenario.

Quote:
But I feel like the only thing preventing Nautilus from being a support on par with Leona and Blitzcrank is his base armor.
I would not want Nautilus' from being a support on par with either of the two you mentioned.

If you run Nautilus as support, you should give up that domineering pressure bot lane, in exchange for a much stronger mid-late game presence. That is, I would want him functional - but not great at it - because what you're aiming for is a much stronger late game contributer or team fight contributer in exchange for a weaker lane.

I want him to be viable, in that he can hold out and be decent at it - but you're not out to completely crush your lane in the same way that those two do.


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sultryvoltron

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Leona's is a stun - which is much better at shutting down return fire - especially against mages. Roots don't inhibit your abilities to apply offensive spells - nor do roots interrupt channels. Rooting a mage doesn't really inhibit their ability to unleash their barrage, for example.

I'm not sure Leona was supposed to excel at disruption and initiation - I say this mostly because the Sunlight passive strongly pushes Leona's role as being contributing damage in a fight, rather than CC effects. This is why Leona's bot kill-lane is so much stronger, for example, as multiple sunlight means she's a much better damage contributer in her initiation combo - especially in a gank scenario.
Sunlight is so ignorable after the first 20 minutes of the game that it doesn't really give a reason to kill Leona to stop the sunlight procs.

A couple of potential fixes to that would be stacking sunlight procs, or a longer persistence on the effect so it lasts beyond initiation and focusing.

It just feels so lackluster the longer the game goes on.


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KOBEEEEEEE

Senior Member

03-04-2012

blitz has alot of cc too


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Blaze12692

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Senior Member

03-04-2012

TBH I hate playing against Nautilus. It just seems that no matter how hard I try if he wants me dead I'm gonna die, Anchor Tow, Snare, Slow, Ult. By then either I'm dead or his team has shown up and I just resign to my fate. It's pointless to try and kill him in that situation hi tankiness prevents me from leaving so much as a scratch in his well rendered hide.


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GreyLazer

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Member

03-04-2012

I just wanted to come in and say that I think this champion is pretty amazing. I didn't feel inclined to play him the whole week, and finally at the end of free week here, I said what the hell and decided to give him a shot.

Just wow. To be honest, I don't know why I never see this champion in ranked, or seen people fighting to pick him. To be quite honest, I think that he looks weird, and that's whats holding him back. I didn't want to try him because he looks pretty weird. And I feel bad about this, because the kit is really fun.


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Practically

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I want him to be viable, in that he can hold out and be decent at it - but you're not out to completely crush your lane in the same way that those two do.
I just got out of a game where the Nautilus seriously just dominated everyone on our team. So, I may be a little biased against him at the moment (I'm going to try to be as objective as possible though), so take what I say with a grain of salt:

Every part of Nautilus's toolkit save for his shield is connected to CC, and the problem with that is that it feels like there isn't much awareness needed when actually in a team fight. Want to go in? Use your anchor, shield, the AE slow and then if someone is running away you just ultimate them. You can use your ultimate to get someone out of position, but out of that threshold he's just some CC machine.

Couple that with the fact that you've made his passive a free CC and then his damage output is considerable when not focused (because most people won't focus a Nautilus seeing his shield, he's a tank anyway) - and you've created a beast that not only is a tank; But he controls a fight so well.

I don't know. I think something needs to give here. Think about it for a second. Nautilus has potentially large damage - but that damage will most likely be present because most of the time people don't try to focus the tank regardless.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-04-2012
4 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
I don't know. I think something needs to give here. Think about it for a second. Nautilus has potentially large damage - but that damage will most likely be present because most of the time people don't try to focus the tank regardless.
This kind of feedback has been on my eyes for a while - I'll have to see where it goes. Generally speaking, the play pattern I would like to encourage is for people to hold a nuke for when his shield goes active to burn it down and deny him that damage contribution in a fight.

It's definitely something Live is watching overall as to his CC/Damage/Survivability ratios - We tried to control this early by making his base defensive stats fairly poor without items and giving him one of the weaker forms of mitigation (Some of the lowest AR/HP gains in his class, for example - with one of the longest shield CD's ever) - but it's definitely on watch for us as to his power level.


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Greyfauxx

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Senior Member

03-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
This kind of feedback has been on my eyes for a while - I'll have to see where it goes. Generally speaking, the play pattern I would like to encourage is for people to hold a nuke for when his shield goes active to burn it down and deny him that damage contribution in a fight.

It's definitely something Live is watching overall as to his CC/Damage/Survivability ratios - We tried to control this early by making his base defensive stats fairly poor without items and giving him one of the weaker forms of mitigation (Some of the lowest AR/HP gains in his class, for example - with one of the longest shield CD's ever) - but it's definitely on watch for us as to his power level.
Great insight as always Xeph. I truly love this champion, all around very fun to play. I feel he's pretty balanced. From playing him a ton, I know to focus him when his shield goes up or move so his "Depth Charge" doesn't knock my teammates up. I believe there is a ton of counter-play to him, but it involves strategy over Champ pick or equipment. It involves players to have to think on their feet. Something, I don't think people are used to.

My example would be an Ashe arrow can be pulled away from a team-fight, your team will eat it regardless of what you do. His ult, you can use flash or ghost or even abilities to get you where the depth charge will be least effective. BUT you got only a few secs to factor it out. That's exciting to me. :3

Great job! I look forward to all your Champs(: