AP Alistar, Hit like a truck? Nonono, he was hit BY a truck.

First Riot Post
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breezybeezy

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Zilean is balanced by the fact that he only has one damage spell and putting him mid severely hampers your team's damage output.


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Leon

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by breezybeezy View Post
Zilean is balanced by the fact that he only has one damage spell and putting him mid severely hampers your team's damage output.
I somewhat agree, but he does get major poke which is good for certain comps... That and he can initiate AND bring back an ally into the fray again


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queara

Senior Member

02-29-2012

alistar is great right now, as a jungler and a support...

i dont want to ban alistar every game again plz


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Norak

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Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
AP Janna doesn't have a damage reduction ult - she's pretty squishy.

Zilean is a beast that I'm really scared of, to be honest.
Can he get a slightly higher ratio than what he has now; on either of his abilities? 1.2 combined AP ratio on decently long cooldown, melee range spells which require skill to pull off is just unheard of. People who want to play AP Ali would have to itemise for it, leaving them much weaker (and have much less utility [cooldown-wise]) than a pure Support/tank Ali; whilst giving them the damage they seek.

Blitzcrank has a combined ap ratio of 2.0 (Q: 0.8, R: 0.2 + 1.0), not to mention great synergy with Lichbane due to his E. He also has AoE due to his ultimate and the ability to tank a lot of damage without tank items due to his passive. Not to mention he has extremely great utility for his team without the need for damage, which includes 3 types of cc (more than Alistar!) and a control ability (Q) like Alistar('s W).

Even just a 1.5 or 1.6 combined ratio would be amazing, especially since his ultimate was already nerfed, despite that being the main reason AP Ali was considered too strong.


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MoonsBane

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Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The point is that I don't think Alistar should be a Tank/Mage/Support :P I don't think he should have burst at all, or really spec into AP much, unless it's a weird off-build.

It's hard to make this good but not silly when a character has skills that are actually good even if they don't have damage.
I don't like this. You're encouraging us to break the meta; and yet you refuse to get Alistar out of a support role or build odd things like this. He's one of the AP's that can go top because of sustain, and yet you say you don't like it. There's no reason he can't have reasonable AP ratio's so he can mage/tank.


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Vitrice

Member

02-29-2012

I truly miss the days of saying AP mid and picking alistar before even shushei showed it was good in games. People would lol or say things like are you serious wtf? and say omg gg. Then I would get ingame and play ali ap mid and do absolutely great. Did I completely own people? Not often. Did I deny every single ap champ mid? Absolutely not. Did I do a good job and show the people saying I was trolling that it could work? You better believe it. It was a very strong position and REALLY FUN. I thought it was an off the wall way to make him work in a different role no one expected. Then he had to take such hard nerfs that he was no longer able to fulfill the ap mid role anymore. Is this the way characters are designed? Are they pigeon holed into roles in which someone finds a new way to play them they get nerfed? I think if they are too overpowered at a certain role they should but if someone finds a role that is INCREDIBLY fun to play and actually works perhaps they shouldn't take that role completely out of the game just because "he was not intended to play the role of ap mid so we shall take away that option completely." Just my 2 cents.
nevar 4get ap ali mid. I miss you, I love you, and I hope to meet you someday in the future. My heart still holds a place for you and I will never let you go. <3


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Gløry

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
AP Janna doesn't have a damage reduction ult
Neither does alistar since you nerfed it so hard. seriously at level 6, it's not enough. you can't bait people into bursting you, since it won't be enough to survive the burst at level 6 unless you already had it up, in which case they won't attack you. it's too easy to finish off a low-ish hp alistar through his 50% ult. Especially since he's gonna have ignite on him.

I get that you were trying to make it not attractive to build glass cannon on him. That's fine.

but given the current bot lane setup, the only viable first two items for him are philo stone and heart of gold. When the first dragon conflicts begin, he will have those, and maybe one part of aegis--it's not going to be enough for him to get in there vs scary ap mids and such, especially since his low-base-high-scaling armor hasn't caught up yet, and double-especially since he has 30 mr. I mean, you still DO IT, but alistar's ult is supposed to be a big, "don't touch me" sign, but early game it's just too easy to get through it. since you nerfed the final reduction to 70, at least let it be 70/70/70.


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fevercry

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Zilean mid is really powerful but you need to have a scaling bruiser in the jungle like Warwick or GP, an Ap top (cass? Rumble?) and a nutty late game carry. also helps to have more of a CC support like Leona/Ali/Sona


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Xyltin

Senior Member

02-29-2012

To the OP:
You forgot the changes when they reduced his Q stun duration from 2.5 to 2.2 then 2 then 1.5 then 0.5.

I always said that Alistar was the most OP champ in the game, cause he got overall the hardest nerfs (Riot needed 2 years of constant nerfs).


@Morello:
Alistar was very tanky. His current ult makes him way less tanky than he used to be. Without any HP items, he can still be killed in a very good speed before he reaches lvl 16.
AP Alistar had utility, but with the heal nerfs overall, he needs to skill it and it still costs now a good amount of mana. AP alistar never had such a high mana pool, and he spammed it mostly on lvl 1 (40% higher mana costs will prevent this).
His CC is still there, but when Shen can get an AOE taunt that lowers the AA dmg by 50% on a 8 sec CD (and it deals some dmg and has the same AP ratio as Alistars stun and has a range to use and doesn't really cost energy in team fights), why can't Alistar get a CDR or a higher AP ratio on his stun (0.6 AP ratio and -1 sec CD)?
If you want that jungle Alistar from Snoopeh, nerf the Headbutt range (knockback and charge rfom 650 to 600).

His cheap heal was a problem for a log time, but you took care of that (i said, since the Healing nerfs, that his heal was way too cheap).
A 0.1 AP ratio buff and -1 sec CD buff on his Q wouldn't bring AP Alistar back, but maybe he will be able to get a rylais after the 0 CS meta to get more utility, without crippling himself too much. Maybe he will get a Zhonyas.

Or do you want to make him to another TriForce victim after the 0 CS meta ends?


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-29-2012
7 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norak View Post
Can he get a slightly higher ratio than what he has now; on either of his abilities? 1.2 combined AP ratio on decently long cooldown, melee range spells which require skill to pull off is just unheard of. People who want to play AP Ali would have to itemise for it, leaving them much weaker (and have much less utility [cooldown-wise]) than a pure Support/tank Ali; whilst giving them the damage they seek.

Blitzcrank has a combined ap ratio of 2.0 (Q: 0.8, R: 0.2 + 1.0), not to mention great synergy with Lichbane due to his E. He also has AoE due to his ultimate and the ability to tank a lot of damage without tank items due to his passive. Not to mention he has extremely great utility for his team without the need for damage, which includes 3 types of cc (more than Alistar!) and a control ability (Q) like Alistar('s W).

Even just a 1.5 or 1.6 combined ratio would be amazing, especially since his ultimate was already nerfed, despite that being the main reason AP Ali was considered too strong.
Maybe slightly so it "feels" a bit better if he gets farmed, but the expectation is that it's not a competitive damage character in reality. I'll bring this up with the team.