AP Alistar, Hit like a truck? Nonono, he was hit BY a truck.

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Morello

Lead Designer

02-29-2012
4 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamsOfGrandeur View Post
Will this call for a new passive then, Morello?

After all, I'm pretty sure Alistar is suppose to be a tank. I think a tank needs a passive that's more in-line with rewarding or facilitating his ability to tank.
It could - I can see that. This passive was in the lines of helping him farm, but that was before 0 CS was in play. Although fixing 0 CS without pushing supports out of the game is the better fix, that will take some voodoo to get right.


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Leon

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The point is that I don't think Alistar should be a Tank/Mage/Support :P I don't think he should have burst at all, or really spec into AP much, unless it's a weird off-build.

It's hard to make this good but not silly when a character has skills that are actually good even if they don't have damage.
Then why does Alistar get AD from his ultimate? And why does he even have AP ratios at all?
It just seems very silly to even have them on there if he's really not supposed to do anything with them. (I'm talking about the AD passive... Mainly. Even though that doesn't translate into him being a mage it's still funky as hell to see that on a supposed support.)

Also, wait why is AP Janna allowed in play? She has major poke and pushing ability, she gets a VERY huge shield, and her AOE heal is insane if you can get it off fully. (If you do.)

I don't want you to think I'm giving you random flak, I just think it's silly that certain things that are fun just get removed without any real answers. I think this is the first time you've talked to us about Alistar after his rework as well.

If you're still here could you explain to us as to why you can't just rework Eve with the current stealth? Almost everyone that I've talked to the only two reasons they HATED Eve was because of her stun AND her heal. I don't see why you have to change the core mechanic which isn't really that broken in the first place


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Rubilax

Junior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It could - I can see that. This passive was in the lines of helping him farm, but that was before 0 CS was in play. Although fixing 0 CS without pushing supports out of the game is the better fix, that will take some voodoo to get right.
Lol remove gp5 and gold/s runes duh ~~~~~~


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Laue

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Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
"Gotchaing" me by pointing out that this plagues some of our characters, which I admit, isn't really going to do much :P Does that mean Kennen's lower amount of tradeoffs is a pattern we should use to balance other champions who are more appropriate?
No, that was just Kennen QQ. He has great damage, crowd control, which is AoE. And has an escape and doesn't use mana. And pretty good range.

Ali had similar problems I guess, just replace range with sustain and no mana with a really good damage reduction ult. Kennen isn't that hugely permaban OP and uncounterable, but he is very strong without a distinct weakness. And with the new champions and reworks you seem to try and add clear weaknesses to the champions. It's Kennen's turn.

I guess Kennen is the biggest offender IMO. I personally think while he could use a buff to his other skills, his basic attack and Thundering Shuriken range should greatly reduced.


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JohnnyW

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretched Monarch View Post
Lol remove gp5 and gold/s runes duh ~~~~~~
Too easy of a fix.


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fevercry

Senior Member

02-29-2012

i would be interested morello in having someone like alistar have something like headbutt (not pulverize ye gods no) be castable more often in a teamfight - like refresh on assist/kill but up the cd and lower the damage.

i find that the reason a lot of the cc/heal supports fall off late game (taric, alistar basically) is that typically they have a lot of restrictions on their cc to make early laning vs them workable, but in late game fights they really are best served by being aurabots because their cc ranges and cooldowns make them highly vulnerable. i often find that unless the enemy team is wildly out of position, usually you blow your cds for negligible effect or need them later and they aren't up for basically forever.


longwinded - i think ali and taric could use triggering cd reductions on their cc skills for assists to make late game not feel quite as bad for them


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Astrozz

Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wretched Monarch View Post
Lol remove gp5 and gold/s runes duh ~~~~~~
That would just push supports out of the game completely, as why give a champ farm that can't efficiently put it to use?


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Erebos

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It could - I can see that. This passive was in the lines of helping him farm, but that was before 0 CS was in play.
Oh god. Please stop ruining champions to push this crappy meta even more.

It will never change if you even make/change champions for it.

MESS WITH THE BULL AND YOU GET THE HORNS!

Comon, give him some dmg back.

Out of teamfights and in dom it's like "hey look, i push someone around and no one cares...".


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Rubilax

Junior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preyzz View Post
That would just push supports out of the game completely, as why give a champ farm that can't efficiently put it to use?
That would force them to play agressive and get assist or share cs as their source of gold


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fevercry

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It could - I can see that. This passive was in the lines of helping him farm, but that was before 0 CS was in play. Although fixing 0 CS without pushing supports out of the game is the better fix, that will take some voodoo to get right.
you are the designer so you know this better than I do, but I thought that the redesign happened in the context of solo lane/roamistar being fairly popular, and was meant to help out that "flavor" of alistar until shushei ruined it for everyone by being too **** good