AP Alistar, Hit like a truck? Nonono, he was hit BY a truck.

First Riot Post
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Leon

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
This is part of the expectation that's just off - Alistar has fantastic utility...lane sustain, CC and movement manipulation. It stands to reason that a champion like this shouldn't have mega-damage - where would the trade-off be?

Our most problematic characters are ones with ill-defined or straight-up missing weaknesses. old AP Alistar is a great example of this. A character full of utility is typically brought for the utility, and I really don't see any problem with that.
AP Alistar USED TO do way too much for his team. He could tank, he could heal, he could burst, he could do semi-sustained damage (His passive.), and he could push like a mother.

You guys kinda left him off to a boring support role. I don't see why he can't have his AP ratios back as long as base damage stays the same.

Physical and magic damage reduction reduced to 50/60/70% from 75% at all ranks.
Duration changed to 7 seconds at all ranks from 6/7/8.

70% to 50% is a VERY HUGE NERF for somebody that's melee and is building AP. It's even a huge nerf to support ali, but support ali was too strong then too.

I think even a tiny trade-off for AP ratio on his E to be removed just so he can have some of his burst back would be nice.


Also, some heroes on paper might supposedly have a LOT of power and utility but in turn take a lot of skill, which I don't think is that big of a deal as long as their utility isn't too over the charts. Remember Kayle? Yeah, I don't either.

I also think you guys did something so that AP Alistar's combo was EASY AS BALLS to do after the rework. (Actually, you broke it then you made it easier to do.)


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-29-2012
2 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laue View Post
So, what is Kennen's weakness?
"Gotchaing" me by pointing out that this plagues some of our characters, which I admit, isn't really going to do much :P Does that mean Kennen's lower amount of tradeoffs is a pattern we should use to balance other champions who are more appropriate?


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Foxley

Senior Member

02-29-2012

I still play him AP on Dominion. Works great, not as ubergood as it used to be, but still decent. On SR I play him as a utility tank jungler, or bot lane support if my team really needs one.


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Tyler Perry

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Recruiter

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laue View Post
So, what is Kennen's weakness?
Everyone's answer to that is going to be CC and you know it.

Personally, I'm happy for the Alistar "nerfs".
Riot is just trying to stop people from building him as a burst mage.

He's meant to support. Play him as one please.


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Sphirael

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Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laue View Post
So, what is Kennen's weakness?
Lolwut.. He has weaknesses?


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Amaranty

Member

02-29-2012

I think the biggest problem with AP Alistar was that he could chain headbutt and pulverize in a single combo which pretty much annihilated anyone who was a bit squishy. Maybe buff the ratios but not allow him to chain this combo?


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-29-2012
3 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
AP Alistar USED TO do way too much for his team. He could tank, he could heal, he could burst, he could do semi-sustained damage (His passive.), and he could push like a mother.

You guys kinda left him off to a boring support role. I don't see why he can't have his AP ratios back as long as base damage stays the same.

Physical and magic damage reduction reduced to 50/60/70% from 75% at all ranks.
Duration changed to 7 seconds at all ranks from 6/7/8.

70% to 50% is a VERY HUGE NERF for somebody that's melee and is building AP. It's even a huge nerf to support ali, but support ali was too strong then too.

I think even a tiny trade-off for AP ratio on his E to be removed just so he can have some of his burst back would be nice.
The point is that I don't think Alistar should be a Tank/Mage/Support :P I don't think he should have burst at all, or really spec into AP much, unless it's a weird off-build.

It's hard to make this good but not silly when a character has skills that are actually good even if they don't have damage.


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Ossus

Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
"Gotchaing" me by pointing out that this plagues some of our characters, which I admit, isn't really going to do much :P Does that mean Kennen's lower amount of tradeoffs is a pattern we should use to balance other champions who are more appropriate?
I dunno, though on the subject I feel that Hourglass on certain champions to be used offensively rather than defensively could use a look at . Maybe a damage decrease while in gold form?.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

02-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
This is part of the expectation that's just off - Alistar has fantastic utility...lane sustain, CC and movement manipulation. It stands to reason that a champion like this shouldn't have mega-damage - where would the trade-off be?

Our most problematic characters are ones with ill-defined or straight-up missing weaknesses. old AP Alistar is a great example of this. A character full of utility is typically brought for the utility, and I really don't see any problem with that.
Will this call for a new passive then, Morello?

After all, I'm pretty sure Alistar is suppose to be a tank. I think a tank needs a passive that's more in-line with rewarding or facilitating his ability to tank.


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Rubilax

Junior Member

02-29-2012

Thx god They finally nerfed ali's dmg, I hate playing ad against a cow that goes wherever he is pleased at lvl 6 and burst ur face down then walk out with a heuhueuhe face