@Xypherous: I heard from Coronach that Yorick is getting reworked in the future?

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Romdeau

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Senior Member

02-15-2012

yorick is one of the stupidest champions in the game, 3 point click moves and u right click the other guy to death. Repeat until lane is won....kinda reminds me of vlad in terms of stupidity and easy of use.


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Glutton

Member

02-15-2012

Xypherous! PLEASE READ!

Why do yorick minions not pull aggro in turret range? it would make sense for yorick to be top priority for aggro and if he isnt in range of the turret shouldnt minions be 2nd priority?? I also feel like they have too small of a hit box or w/e its called. I have to target click (a key) on them every time if I want to actually hit one

clarification on this would be sweet


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Haestro

Senior Member

02-15-2012

We need his ult to fuse his ghouls with him so we can make a Captain Planet reference.


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Coronach

Game Designer

02-15-2012
3 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by zepy18 View Post
if you had to pinpoint the biggest flaw in yoric, what would you say it is. i say it's that you can't control the little ghouls with alt-click like you can with the ult.
Playing as: Yorick's ghouls don't feel cool. in an effort to make him not feel like a SC Carrier (float around while ghouls do the work), we pushed them too far so the ghouls don't feel important. The middle ground is when you feel like you're fighting with your ghouls.

Playing against: Killing the ghouls does not offer sufficient reward/counter-play due to the point above.

For example, imagine if Omen of Famine's ghoul would start out small while summoned and each time it hit an enemy grew larger and larger. You could click E to consume the ghoul to heal based on how large it's grown at the cost of losing it's damage output. The CD of the spell is modified to trigger after the ghoul is consumed.

(For this thought experiment: Consider Yorick's passive changed from damage reduction per ghoul active to gaining a property of each ghoul that is active. In this example, Yorick has 10% lifesteal while the Ravenous Ghoul is active)

In my mind this presents better gameplay than what is currently on live because the opponent has the opportunity to:
  1. Remove the lifesteal effect from Yorick
  2. Reduce the damage output for a guaranteed amount of time
  3. Directly reduce the burst healing by killing the ghoul before it can grow to the maximum size.

Meanwhile, I think this is more fun for Yorick because:
  1. Your ghoul has more personality (through the visceral nature of it's size corresponding to heal potency).
  2. We could remove the 5 second lifetime of the ghouls which make them feel transitory and not worth your attention after casting.
  3. His passive creates more gameplay and decision making.

I really feel like we missed an opportunity at a much cooler character here. Xypherous' string of characters is cooling down soon, and my work on Co-Op finishing up (BuffMePlz will continue to kick ass on that feature), so I hope we can realize it.


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Orion69

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02-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coronach View Post
Playing as: Yorick's ghouls don't feel cool. in an effort to make him not feel like a SC Carrier (float around while ghouls do the work), we pushed them too far so the ghouls don't feel important. The middle ground is when you feel like you're fighting with your ghouls.

Playing against: Killing the ghouls does not offer sufficient reward/counter-play due to the point above.

For example, imagine if Omen of Famine's ghoul would start out small while summoned and each time it hit an enemy grew larger and larger. You could click E to consume the ghoul to heal based on how large it's grown at the cost of losing it's damage output. The CD of the spell is modified to trigger after the ghoul is consumed.

(For this thought experiment: Consider Yorick's passive changed from damage reduction per ghoul active to gaining a property of each ghoul that is active. In this example, Yorick has 10% lifesteal while the Ravenous Ghoul is active)

In my mind this presents better gameplay than what is currently on live because the opponent has the opportunity to:
  1. Remove the lifesteal effect from Yorick
  2. Reduce the damage output for a guaranteed amount of time
  3. Directly reduce the burst healing by killing the ghoul before it can grow to the maximum size.

Meanwhile, I think this is more fun for Yorick because:
  1. Your ghoul has more personality (through the visceral nature of it's size corresponding to heal potency).
  2. We could remove the 5 second lifetime of the ghouls which make them feel transitory and not worth your attention after casting.
  3. His passive creates more gameplay and decision making.

I really feel like we missed an opportunity at a much cooler character here. Xypherous' string of characters is cooling down soon, and my work on Co-Op finishing up (BuffMePlz will continue to kick ass on that feature), so I hope we can realize it.
Xypherous will never stop being a beast mode champ creator imo. Most of his just have so much uniqueness.

One thing I must say when I played Yorick is that I expected his ghouls to be around longer, or to work like Sona or Udyr (you guys said we should be spamming our ghouls when you released him). Thus I thought they'd have a lower CD or they'd be up longer, or only 1 at a time, and give an aura when you change ghouls or something. That is what I expected anyway, and something I could see being more easily implemented considering you have the platform of 2 other champs to work with.


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Avander

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Senior Member

02-15-2012

One thing you might consider doing is putting controls on Yorick's ghouls similar to Viktor's ult. Personally I would like to see that type of control on all controllable pets, but I guess I am not an ALT person.


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Orion69

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Senior Member

02-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glutton View Post
Xypherous! PLEASE READ!

Why do yorick minions not pull aggro in turret range? it would make sense for yorick to be top priority for aggro and if he isnt in range of the turret shouldnt minions be 2nd priority?? I also feel like they have too small of a hit box or w/e its called. I have to target click (a key) on them every time if I want to actually hit one

clarification on this would be sweet
I 100% agree with this actually. Either clones/ghouls/pets, etc should be last priority (unless attacking a champ) or they should be first. Riot really needs to make up their mind on this. You always see heimer turrets or Morde ghost or Shaco clone attacked first, but not always on other champs (like yorick). I personally think that clones/ghosts/turrets shouldn't be turret first priority (unless the player did it themselves (i.e. tanking turret w/o minions)) since 2 of them are ults and the other is mana intensive and a big part of his kit.


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Tanxxed

Senior Member

02-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coronach View Post
Playing as: Yorick's ghouls don't feel cool. in an effort to make him not feel like a SC Carrier (float around while ghouls do the work), we pushed them too far so the ghouls don't feel important. The middle ground is when you feel like you're fighting with your ghouls.

Playing against: Killing the ghouls does not offer sufficient reward/counter-play due to the point above.

For example, imagine if Omen of Famine's ghoul would start out small while summoned and each time it hit an enemy grew larger and larger. You could click E to consume the ghoul to heal based on how large it's grown at the cost of losing it's damage output. The CD of the spell is modified to trigger after the ghoul is consumed.

(For this thought experiment: Consider Yorick's passive changed from damage reduction per ghoul active to gaining a property of each ghoul that is active. In this example, Yorick has 10% lifesteal while the Ravenous Ghoul is active)

In my mind this presents better gameplay than what is currently on live because the opponent has the opportunity to:
  1. Remove the lifesteal effect from Yorick
  2. Reduce the damage output for a guaranteed amount of time
  3. Directly reduce the burst healing by killing the ghoul before it can grow to the maximum size.

Meanwhile, I think this is more fun for Yorick because:
  1. Your ghoul has more personality (through the visceral nature of it's size corresponding to heal potency).
  2. We could remove the 5 second lifetime of the ghouls which make them feel transitory and not worth your attention after casting.
  3. His passive creates more gameplay and decision making.

I really feel like we missed an opportunity at a much cooler character here. Xypherous' string of characters is cooling down soon, and my work on Co-Op finishing up (BuffMePlz will continue to kick ass on that feature), so I hope we can realize it.

what about this that just came to my mind.... what if he could have a ghoul out permanently ? just like heimer can have his turrets out as long as he pleases ?


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Rivercalm

Member

02-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coronach View Post
Playing as: Yorick's ghouls don't feel cool. in an effort to make him not feel like a SC Carrier (float around while ghouls do the work), we pushed them too far so the ghouls don't feel important. The middle ground is when you feel like you're fighting with your ghouls.

Playing against: Killing the ghouls does not offer sufficient reward/counter-play due to the point above.

For example, imagine if Omen of Famine's ghoul would start out small while summoned and each time it hit an enemy grew larger and larger. You could click E to consume the ghoul to heal based on how large it's grown at the cost of losing it's damage output. The CD of the spell is modified to trigger after the ghoul is consumed.

(For this thought experiment: Consider Yorick's passive changed from damage reduction per ghoul active to gaining a property of each ghoul that is active. In this example, Yorick has 10% lifesteal while the Ravenous Ghoul is active)

In my mind this presents better gameplay than what is currently on live because the opponent has the opportunity to:
  1. Remove the lifesteal effect from Yorick
  2. Reduce the damage output for a guaranteed amount of time
  3. Directly reduce the burst healing by killing the ghoul before it can grow to the maximum size.

Meanwhile, I think this is more fun for Yorick because:
  1. Your ghoul has more personality (through the visceral nature of it's size corresponding to heal potency).
  2. We could remove the 5 second lifetime of the ghouls which make them feel transitory and not worth your attention after casting.
  3. His passive creates more gameplay and decision making.

I really feel like we missed an opportunity at a much cooler character here. Xypherous' string of characters is cooling down soon, and my work on Co-Op finishing up (BuffMePlz will continue to kick ass on that feature), so I hope we can realize it.
So if ghouls' decay effect is removed and ghoul gives Yorick unique passive, should Yorick only keep one ghoul at a time?


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Fox P McCloud

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Senior Member

02-15-2012

It's an interesting thought, Coronach, but why do you guys feel the need to rework him? I mean...aside from being a bot lane dominator in Dominion, he's really not that great---he's rarely seen in SR (and often times picked as a support).

In SR, his early game is horrid, as he's force into building tear of the goddess---upon which, if he survive this stage he turns mid game into a sustain and ability spam fest where you can't do much to him....mid-late he turns into someone who doesn't really do much of anything and is completely dependent on having a very fed carry on his own team--if he doesn't, well, then he doesn't do much, sadly.

Wouldn't it be easier to just tweak the existing Yorick so he's viable at all stages of the game instead of reworking him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivercalm View Post
So if ghouls' decay effect is removed and ghoul gives Yorick unique passive, should Yorick only keep one ghoul at a time?
This concerns me; unless the ghouls were super powerful, wouldn't this make Yorick super weak? Alternatively, if you can gain actives by merely having a ghoul out (and it lasts until it dies with no decay), doesn't this just create incentive for Yorick to have his minions hold back away from enemies (when they're 'fed'/'stacked') and Yorick just takes advantage of all the passives with no risks as he could just have them stay outside of the fight.