Morello what is your take on soraka bot lane.

First Riot Post
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NeverPull0ut

Senior Member

02-09-2012

To be honest, I actually like where this is going. Supports seem to be moving away from the 15 minute snore fest bottom lane created by Soraka and Sona. The reality is, I would love to see supports be slightly more battle oriented, or even see support champions only be optional in competitive play. The roaming meta was my favorite by far, and the kill lane meta is slowly becoming viable. I like that Riot doesn't just leave everything exactly as is, because it keeps the game from getting stale.

When I started playing this game, I remember my Soraka healing me for 75% of my health every 5 seconds, and the only reason I would ever leave bottom lane was to purchase my IE as soon as I farmed enough for it. Bottom lane is now much more dynamic, and harassing/outplaying your opponent means something because they can't just sustain it all back. People need to stop overreacting to support "nerfs". Clearly, since there is still a support in 100% of competitive games, the position is still viable and necessary.


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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

02-09-2012

Hey Morello. Karma.

PS: You've been a good sport playing evil villian to the Solari. It's kinda funny. I'm imagining you going "Next time gadget NEXT TIME *sqwak*"


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Malgana

Senior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinJaX3er View Post
you did not just say that crescendo is used for "saving" people.. that is a lie and you know it.. sona is used as the aggressive champion that you intended her to be and it's only been used to initiate against a team..

if you want to make it to saved people change it to a .5 second stun and make it slow for the following 2 seconds.
You're misunderstanding, she IS saving you by doing that.
Imagine that same team fight if she didn't initiate with her ult, it'd be a lot harder right? that's because she's saving you from a ton of damage by doing it.
After that, she's still got a heal, some damage, and potentially a slow/damage reducer to toss out just in case stuff really hits the fan.

"Saving" people doesn't mean you ally has to be running away from an enemy, it can be healing them from close to death in a very close 1v1 duel just to have them walk away with the kill, or ulting during a team fight to allow somebody to life steal/spell vamp a bit or wait for that cooldown they need, etc...


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Lancer723

Senior Member

02-09-2012

Kill lanes are rare. It's essentially double bruiser, the same setup that AD/Support replaced since it was better.

Anyway, I'm not really going to offer any criticism on this, Soraka is a broken champion that needs major changes, Sona needs mostly numbers adjustments imo. Alistar/Taric/Janna are all perfectly balanced right now and if you touch them I will be upset. Blitz could prob use so QoL changes, Leona is in a good place, Nunu could definitely use some buffs (WHY CONSUME NO 1-SHOT BLUE WRAITH) mostly he should get more AS from bloodboiling himself only, which helps his jungle and doesn't break him in bottom lane.

You do alright Morello, super sustain is toxic for bottom lane, but Soraka is to ingrained with heals that anything but a complete overhaul won't fix. This coming from a support main btw.

Just be careful in your decisions, knowing that nerfing sona/soraka is likely going to bury them if it's too harsh and bring the other 3 of the "Big 5" to the forefront of bot lane. And if you ever touch Alistar/Janna/Taric I swear I will lose all faith. Those are the 3 most balanced champions in the game and if you are considering changing them it means you messed up somewhere else.


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Lolki

Senior Member

02-09-2012

I am a player who greatly enjoys support. I like making sure my teammates little green and blue bars are as full as possible. I am one of those players who doesn't get Starcall until I absolutely have to because I prefer being supportive of my team over attacking the enemy. Sure, I harass when I can, but in some lanes things get so aggressive that I have to sit back and heal/infuse otherwise I will die.

Though I agree that having the mana resource while it always being full is a bit of a problem, I am afraid that Soraka will become boring to play if Infuse is changed, especially during the lanning phase. Since Starcall pushes lanes and steals CS, Heal and Infuse are the only two options a lanning support Soraka has. Heal has a very long cooldown and you want to keep it available for a direct fight if possible. This leaves Infuse being her main bread and butter. You can use it to harass, to silence and prevent damage to you or your partner for some ability the enemy was trying to shoot out, or build up mana when needed.

If Infuse is altered in a way more then a small lowering of the mana given, I can see Soraka having few options for participation besides landing the occasional fat heal on a long cooldown and throwing crescent moons at people's heads. I would hope that any decrease to the support nature of Infuse would give a corresponding increase to it's more offensive nature so that it would be a bit more effective when used to harass.

In any case, I look forward to the new support champion when it is released, and thank you Morello for working so hard to make this a fun and balanced game for all! (Even if you are the mastermind of some dark anti-support conspiracy >.<)


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warlord 1050

Senior Member

02-09-2012

I hope that any changes for supports won't compromise their positions on dominion.
Some are already on the weak side on that map.


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DarkTwinge

Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenkid View Post
One example? how about when you reworked Soraka not into a healer but into a battle mage courtesy of Shurelia.
Soraka is actually already a strong mage since the rework. She honestly can't be buffed significantly in this regard without being solidly overpowered.


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SilentNightSona

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Senior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Healers will be balanced to not negate all damage infinitely, yes. That design is an expectation, unfortunately, because it make the healer fun, but the cost of the game flow is simply not worth it. The direction is to at least make sure that they can clutch save people (Monsoon, Wish, Crescendo) but not have them undo non-burst damage easily.

Healing needs to be weaker than damage, over time, but can have strong bursts. Summoner Heal/Wish Baits are good examples of healthy heals, because you're not going to be topping off Graves with that, but you can save him if he almost dies - the healer feels epic, the benefactor is grateful, and the enemies can capitalize on the long cooldown/opportunity cost.

Right now, Soraka does both of these. We're going to make it so eventually, she can run out of mana and the enemy can seize the advantage. Sona's problem is actually not really her heal right now (that's about as balanced as it can be on that character).

This is the core design problem with not heal spells, but dedicated healers. If someone's only job is to heal, it will ruin the game if it's really satisfying. Instead, in most cases, support characters can heal if they can also do other things, and they're not only about red bars going up. There's still no team-based PvP game I can think of where this is not true.
First of all thank you for the response.

Secondly, I understand how Soraka's unlimited heal/mana was be a major problem in the laning phase. I don't play Soraka myself, and I can't speak from the point of view from the players who do, but I think I understand where this nerf is coming from.

I am an avid Sona player. She was one of the first champs I bought, my first main (back when I had main champs, lol), and I went through the horrible phase of learning not to build straight AP on her. But since I've spent this time learning how to play her well (not too hard I'll admit), I have noticed her role change in game. With the nerf to her heal originally, I started maxing E before W in game, and I liked the end result (probably what was intended lol). If there are going to be further nerfs though, it seems her heal will eventually become near worthless. Therefore, I'm glad to hear that at the moment there seems to be no problems with her W.

What concerns me now though, is what exactly seems to be the problem with Sona [i]now[/]. Other than her being easier to play than the other supports (kind of the Tryndamere of supports, I guess one could say), I feel she is very balanced where she is at now. Maybe it's my playstyle, my current Elo, etc. but Sona doesn't seem to have the same game changing potential that non-supports have, and I feel that this is a trade-off for the ability to support.

Basically, what do you feel needs to be nerfed on Sona specifically?

EDIT: Also, how would you feel about a power stacking heal like I mentioned in my previous post?


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Fish Fillet

Senior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falleth View Post
Bishops in Lineage 2. They are healbots even more than Priests in WoW, yet they fit in perfectly fine. How come? Because even though they heal at amazing speed, people CAN still be killed.
But that's not really relevant here because if you made heal champions like this then you'd have to buff everyone's damage to be able to actually kill them, and at that point your reworking the entire game.


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Wilfred Brimley

Senior Member

02-09-2012

Ever considered giving a champ a heal-over-time spell. Drawback is that it's not immediately efficient, but provides no buff/aura and has a higher base heal value. eg. mundo's ultimate, but not % based healing; a flat value over time.