Brainlizard's Tier List: Boredom Incarnate

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TakinTheHeat

Senior Member

01-19-2012

bump update please.


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Stimuz

Senior Member

01-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsCollective View Post
What I ment is that Lifesteal alone does not counter it (doesnt matter how much you get, if you dont get MR or ArmPen to go with it, it doesnt counter it), but MR alone can counter it and ArmPen alone can counter it aswell.

Huh? You can never get enough MR/Armor Pen to reduce the reflected damage to 0. You can actually get enough lifesteal to do that, not that its a good idea.


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RealWolf M

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Senior Member

01-19-2012

you need all three to counter it. Its a balance. The arpen just means you lifesteal more. The higher lifesteal means you lifesteal more. The MR means you take less damage.

Getting Arpen does not make you take less damage


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Endomarru

Senior Member

01-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by stimuz View Post
while hes definitely good his usefulness kind of overlaps with the ap supporty types like nid/janna/lux/karma ect who all can pull similar burst while having heals and shields to directly support teammates with. He's also not on the level of some of the pure nukers like cass, leblanc, even ahri. That's really all there is to it, hes somewhat redundant for dominion.
but the poke! Oh god the poke!


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brainlizard

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Senior Member

01-27-2012

Updated for Sejuani patch, finally. Haven't had as much time to play lately.


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brainlizard

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Senior Member

02-01-2012

Updated for Ziggs patch.

Lux finally won me over as viable in the right comp. I got to play with an exceptionally good Lux with a team consisting of Lux, Ashe, Ziggs, Blitz (me), and Urgot in botlane. We faced Jax, Ez, Gragas, Singed and Nasus in botlane. Any time Lux could land her double-snare, it was bombs, arrows, and lasers galore until the two she snared were basically melted. Crazy AOE poke!

Ashe has also been clearly deserving more recognition. She just HAS to have some cover from allies. But if she can get it, Crystal Arrow has always been one of the very best teamfight ults in the game.

Finally, Morde does work as a botlane counterpick. Basically, he can stall the lane at his tower if he wants, because he can keep even massive waves from neutralizing it by just tanking their attacks with his shield and vamp. Then, when his ult + ignite are ready, it's go time. An enemy champ that can force him to fight is still a big problem for him, however.


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Isysar

Senior Member

02-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainlizard View Post
Updated for Ziggs patch!

Here is a tier list for you to rip apart Why? Because Dominion is fun!

Explanation of tiers
-Ban Tier is exactly that: the six champs you do NOT want on the enemy team. These guys are game-changers.
-Needs Nerf Tier is for champs that I firmly believe could use some nerfing, simply because they outclass their counterparts.
-Strong Tier is for champs that are pretty much always going to be good picks. They're in a very good place, design-wise.
-Comp-Dependent Tier is for those champs that only do well with or against certain other champs.
-Needs Buff Tier is for champs that would always do even better as some other champ.

Most tiers are simply in alphabetical order.

NOTE: I assume very strong play on all champs, as that's what I see from my opponents. I can only give you my best guess at how champs do at lower elos Sorry!

* denotes those champs that really require strong mechanics.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Ban Tier (Ordered from strongest to weakest)
Rammus, Kassadin, Yorick, Poppy, Urgot, Shaco

Needs Nerf Tier (Ordered from strongest to weakest)
Wukong, Ryze, Pantheon, Vayne, Talon, Blitzcrank, Singed

Strong Tier (Ordered alphabetically)
Ahri, Akali, Alistar, Brand*, Cassiopeia*, Evelynn, Ezreal, Fizz, Gangplank, Graves, Heimerdinger, Irelia, Karthus*, Kog'Maw, LeBlanc, Lee Sin*, Malzahar, Maokai, Nasus, Nocturne, Orianna*, Riven, Rumble, Sion, Skarner, Soraka, Twitch, Udyr, Viktor*

Comp-Dependent Tier (Ordered alphabetically)
Amumu, Anivia*, Annie, Ashe, Corki, Dr. Mundo, Fiddlesticks, Garen, Gragas*, Janna, Jarvan IV, Jax, Katarina, Kayle, Kennen, Leona, Lux*, Malphite, Master Yi, Mordekaiser, Morgana*, Nidalee*, Nunu, Olaf, Shen, Shyvana, Sivir, Sona, Swain, Taric, Teemo, Tristana, Tryndamere, Twisted Fate, Vladimir, Volibear, Warwick, Xin Zhao, Zilean

Needs Buff Tier (Ordered alphabetically)
Caitlyn, Cho'Gath, Galio, Karma, Miss Fortune, Renekton, Sejuani, Trundle, Veigar, Xerath*

------------------------------------------------------------------

Some explanations/notes for some champs:

Rammus is King. It's fun to pretend otherwise, but in reality, you just played a crappy Rammus

Urgot somehow doesn't dominate mid elo like he does high elo. My theory is that Urgot counters resists, which mid elo players seem to ignore. At higher elos, where the importance of resists is understood, he melts face. Don't ban him if you're below +30 wins, I'd say.

Ryze should be banned if you have first pick because he's so easy to play and you want to force the enemy team to give you one of the Ban Tier champs.

Blitz, Panth, Talon, and Wukong are simply the kings of the bruisers. In particular, they have great gap-closer abilities and are not affected by thornmail nearly as much as champs like Sion and Xin. Also, Blitz and Panth have particularly strong map-control.

Akali still has that ult for insane clean-up powers.

Brand and Ori have incredibly powerful ults for 3v3 jungle fights. If you watch high elo Brand/Ori players, you'll notice they stay out of sight. They don't want the enemy to see their ults coming. Note, Ori is very weak when not played by an expert.

Irelia's passive and the low CD on her gap-closer (Q) allow her to move around fights much more easily than most bruisers. Her gap-closer is on half the CD Xin's is, for example. This elevates her to a "good every game" pick, unlike the more kite-able bruisers.

Nasus hate is nonsense. No other hypercarry-type farms/pushes as well as he does, which makes him an exceptionally good bot. Just don't expect to beat AP Yi once his "trollitate" gets up there (darn you Nekrogen!).

Skarner hype should have died down by now. No hard gap-closer means he's just not ban-worthy. Great champ, but not ban-worthy or in need of a nerf.

Udyr is a strong botlane pick, as shown by Jjaja, but as a top, he's really vulnerable to kiting.

Ashe does have a place on a team that can really babysit her and maximize the value of her arrow. It's a rare case to have such a comp in solo Q, however

Amumu still goes with other AOE champs like cookies 'n' milk. Get him with the right allies and you can crush 3v3s.

Corki's long escape cooldown is why I have him in comp-dependent tier, but I may be biased because I'm a full CDR Ezreal player. Corki's kit is great for dominion, and may warrant a spot in the "strong" tier.

Lux HAS to have an amazing player plus the right team comp to work, or she's just a bad Ezreal. If you can get a kite/poke team together, her double-snare becomes very, very good. Still, most players who win with Lux would win even more with another champ.

Mordekaiser is a solid counterpick for botlane. He really excels vs. enemy bot champs that rely on harass or pushing. He also has a pretty unique ability to stand in front of his tower and tank huge waves while clearing them quickly, allowing him to both stall the lane AND be nigh ungankable. Even Nasus doesn't do this as well as Morde. Then, he can choose to throw down when his ult/ignite combo is ready. However, an enemy bot that can force him to fight when his ult/ignite combo is down gives him fits, as without those, he'll lose pretty handily to most good 1v1 champs.

Mundo still has a great poke skill and an insane AD steroid, so should not be completely disregarded. Vs. a team without escapes, he's still going to pound face. Trouble is, escapes/kiting are very common in Dom.

Nunu seems to be a source of hot debate in this thread. My placement of him is all about his potential synergy with champs that can maximize his slows and bloodboil. Yes, Consume is effectively a non-skill. However, he has incredible impact on movement with his slows and movespeed buffs. That all said, he falls off hard enough after 16 minutes that he may need to drop a tier.

Olaf lacks a hard gap-closer. He's exceptionally good whenever you need a lot of true damage (e.g. vs. Poppy) or CC-reduction. Otherwise, you'll usually be better off with someone that has a hard gap-closer.

Janna and Leona are the queens of babysitting, so if you have an ally to work with, these two are actually really, really good. But in most solo Q games, the required coordination means you're better off with Ali/Mao/Blitz for your CC.

Master Yi AP Yi vs. no interrupts? Trollolololol So silly...

Morgana depends on landing her Q so much that she just folds in the open. She's really only good as a bot-lane counter-pick.

Tristana is too weak for too long. If she has a team to carry her through minute 17, however, she can win it from there.

Caitlyn and Miss Fortune simply have nothing to offer over other ranged DPS champs. Graves and Urgot are miles beyond them on bot. Ez has better map control and kiting. Corki and Vayne out DPS them. Kog is a better 'baby-sit-ee' than any of them. And none of them comes close to Tristana's endgame.

Watching LaRoue play Karma gives me hope, but I still think a buff is warranted.

Renekton and Trundle break my heart Two of my favorite champs, but they simply fall off too hard in the end game. Great for levels 6-14. **** afterward.

Sejuani has no steroids and **** AP-ratios, so while her slows are excellent, she's either doing no damage or dying too easily. Really hoping she gets a buff.

Ziggs Patch Comments
-Ashe buffs are nice for dominion. 3s CD reduction on her level 2 volley really helps the windmill fight, and a bit more health and armor is nice.
-Jax seems strong now. Not sure if he's ban-tier again, but those are some hefty buffs. Very impressed with what I've seen so far today.
-Lee Sin nerfs aren't enough to drop him from strong. He doesn't really rely on auto-attacks for his damage in Dominion. That's more of an SR jungling thing.
-Sivir nerfs shouldn't hurt her botlane game too much. The last 5s of ult probably don't come into play THAT often. It does kinda suck for her top game though.
-Viktor's gravity field buff looks quite good. The nature of reaction time is such that people should be dodging it far, far less than before.
-Zeke's Herald looks awesome. 425g for 50 health, 5 CDR and an aura that shares 870g of stats! It will be hotness on tanky supports like Leona and Taric. And in the right comp, it'll even go on main tanks or tanky DPS.
-Locket of the Iron Solari, on the other hand, pays about 900g for a regen aura + shield active. Hard to say if that active is really worth that much gold, as the regen certainly isn't. I'm skeptical.

Sejuani Patch Comments
-I don't think the Ahri nerf was enough to drop her out of strong.
-Mundo's buffs still leave him fairly weak. He's still only going to work if the enemy team can't kite you.
-Graves's ult isn't that critical to his kit in Dom. His steroids and buckshot pushing power are still intact, so he's still excellent.
-The new Jax seems maybe even more comp-dependent than before. 1.5s of 100% dodge can either be insanely good or worthless. Otherwise, his steroids have been nerfed, so his endgame is weaker.
-Rammus nerfs are great, but he's still King.
-Riven skill rebalancing is a nerf. Definitely puts her toward the lower half of the "strong" tier.
-Shaco nerfs were excellent. IMO, AP Shaco is no longer ban-worthy. AD Shaco still is, however.
-Skarner nerfs make me sad, as I love the lobster. That impale CD nerf really sucks. He's still "strong" tier, but he had been borderline "needs a nerf" before.
-Tryndamere is lame. Die
-Vayne nerfs mean she'll depend on the CC of her team more than before. It hurts, but shouldn't matter too much if your teamplay is good. Lower elos will feel the nerf more.
-Vlad is viable after the Sejuani patch buffs. All of the buffs seem appropriate, though I'm guessing the passive nerf is for SR, as he's still not a particularly strong Dom pick.
-Volibear changes don't really fix his vulnerability to a kiting team. Blinks >>> movespeed buffs.

Change Log
-Mordekaiser bumped to comp-dependent. His ghost is enough to give him a place, and he has some good botlane matchups.
-Lux bumped to comp-dependent. An ace Lux player can make a kite/poke comp quite beastly because of her double-snare.
-Ashe bumped to comp-dependent due to her arrow in teamfights. She still really, really needs teammates to cover her.
-Udyr bumped to strong tier. Jjaja has shown that he's a legit botlane champ.
-Sejuani placed in needs a buff tier.
-Vlad bumped to comp-dependent after recent buffs.
-Bumped Irelia to strong. Low CD on Q + CC reduction makes her very hard to kite for a bruiser.
-Dropped WW to comp-dependent. In most cases, Skarner simply outclasses WW by too much.
-Dropped Xin to comp-dependent. His short W duration makes him too susceptible to teams that kite well.
I actually really like this dude. If idiots downvote you enough to close the thread, will you post it again?


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Ensign

Senior Member

02-01-2012

Wukong has had a surge in popularity and is a super stud in all the windmill fights. I feel like if I could ban 4 champions, Wukong would be #4 - and he'd the be the champion I'd ban if I wanted to bait Yorick to pick Skarner. When I am first pick, I ban out the other top picks and try to get Wukong.

I feel like there is a large gap between the trio of Rammus, Kassadin, and Yorick, and the other common bans. So much so that being second ban means being obligated to ban all of those three or none of those three.

Shaco I feel like banning just because he's frustrating to play against when played well. The vast majority of Shaco picks are awful, however. I honestly have no clue what top players would pick and crush with Shaco if left available; I've neglected to ban him on several occasions and seen him fall all the way through without being picked.


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Isysar

Senior Member

02-02-2012

I still like this list. Reading it a second time, I like it even more. Thanks Brainlizard


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brainlizard

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Senior Member

02-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isysar View Post
I still like this list. Reading it a second time, I like it even more. Thanks Brainlizard
Thanks for the props!

I'm thinking of expanding the champ-by-champ section a bit more, as it's really where the meat is anyhow.