I'm saying it: Last hitting is an archaic game mechanic

First Riot Post
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Morello

Lead Designer

01-31-2012
6 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exsnypre View Post
That doesn't make any sense. If anything, proximity based gold gain would increase lane activity. You would want a strong laner to zone your opponent so they can't gain gold. No one would stand behind their creeps and just passively gain gold they would actively try to deny their opponent gold. It's why so many people were upset when GP's parley got changed. It took away from their lane activity/ability to interact with the enemy.
With a lower reliance on minion range and interaction, how would this effect zoning at all?


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AnthonyYang

Senior Member

01-31-2012

singed number one laner


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Ikimono

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Senior Member

01-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Gatsby View Post

The only problem, which honestly I personally don't have too much of an issue with, is the 0 cs support issue.
Could we quite possibly see a red understanding the basics of what is really messed up in the game right now? o_o

Seriously, gold per 10 items are so 'broken' its not funny.


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Guttler

Senior Member

01-31-2012

I'm really trying to write a nice coherent response, but I keep deleting everything because it's not good enough. Curse you skill gap!


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Ellye

Senior Member

01-31-2012

I've always been saying that last hitting, even though I enjoy it, feels like a "legacy" mechanic. A left-over from previous MOBA games.

I believe getting rid of the last-hitting is a natural evolution for the genre. Perhaps it won't happen so fast, but I fully believe that any MOBA game released in, say, after 2016 or so will have no last-hitting mechanic.


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Lemmefarm

Member

01-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
With a lower reliance on minion range and interaction, how would this effect zoning at all?
zoning enemies away the very second they need to come in and make a lasthit is what differentiates good players from great players

On the other hand, the ability to stand back and just dart in for a minionkill, then backing out gives players who are a bit behind the opportunity to stay a factor in the game, given they have the skill-level to do so. If all you need to do is come into 600 range and wait, I too think that will promote passive gameplay, especially when against strong melees etc.

Btw: Last-hitting is implemented as a mechanic that provides a "goal" for PvP interaction, which is "gold gain". So to maximize your gold gain, and minimize the enemies gold gain you will definitely want to go aggressive whenever you can.
Ganks are still worth it, 'cause even if the laner that goes to roam might loose some gold (btw, you can set up your lane in a way that you won't miss out on too many cs) pushing the enemies carries out of lane, making them loose in gold is very much worth it...different champions have different scaling into lategame, you know? It is all about clever decision making, and leaves room for competition in the early stages of the game.

As I said about the "just dmg creeps" or "more global gold for getting the first tower" ideas: that would promote a meta, that is all about pushing champions. Sadly those champions usually tend to have less "champion fighting power" though...which would result in way more passive gameplay than we have right now. Summoners Rift is fine the way it is. I think I am not the only one enjoying the game exactly like it is today, seeing how many people are online each single day. The game is awesome, the meta is interesting (and btw, keeps changing alot recently) and there is a good balance about the strategic-, and the action-oriented gameplay. Just my 2 cents


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PiersonsPuppet

Senior Member

01-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellye View Post
I've always been saying that last hitting, even though I enjoy it, feels like a "legacy" mechanic. A left-over from previous MOBA games.

I believe getting rid of the last-hitting is a natural evolution for the genre. Perhaps it won't happen so fast, but I fully believe that any MOBA game released in, say, after 2016 or so will have no last-hitting mechanic.
There were no previous "MOBA" games. Riot made that term up to differentiate it from what it actually was, a dota based game.


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StretchyStretch

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Senior Member

01-31-2012

My only problem with last hitting is the fact that pushing the lane is such a bad thing. You have to hover around your minions, watching them like a hawk, waiting for one to get just low enough to kill, and that's all you can do. You can't hit a minion unless it's a last hit. That makes a rather tedious and annoying laning phase.


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PiersonsPuppet

Senior Member

01-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by StretchyStretch View Post
My only problem with last hitting is the fact that pushing the lane is such a bad thing. You have to hover around your minions, watching them like a hawk, waiting for one to get just low enough to kill, and that's all you can do. You can't hit a minion unless it's a last hit. That makes a rather tedious and annoying laning phase.
Personally I believe that is balanced out in Hon/dota, by denying. It allows a way to control your lane.


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Falleth

Senior Member

01-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hidden Sniper View Post
I'm saying it: Last-hitting without denying is an anti-fun boring mechanic.

That's why you get rewarded with more gold in Dota for killing creeps than here.
DoTA items tend to cost like 4-5-6k if not more.