Goshg, The Deep Dweller; Yeah or boo?

THE DEEP BECKONS! 251 46.92%
Water support? My body is ready. 138 25.79%
Meh. : / 43 8.04%
Fizz is cuter. :V 62 11.59%
The mighty shark stalks his prey. >:3 41 7.66%
Voters: 535. You may not vote on this poll

Goshg, The Deep Dweller

First Riot Post
12345612 ... 19
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Patchness

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-09-2012

Bumping this champ because I like it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

evawin

Senior Member

01-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPercy View Post
Passive: kk
So far, so good. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPercy View Post
Q: The ability is a good idea as whole but yes there are some problems with it.

Your ability heals alot but has no secondary effect so it's pretty balanced. But it's exactly what Riot destroyed a bumch of patches ago. Notice how they reduced Soraka's healing but buffed the Armor gain? Notice how they Nerfed Sona heal but increased the defensive stats it gives? Decrease Taric heal but cooldown is reduced by much more when he hits champions? etc.

Riot hates sustain and your champ is THE king of sustain. Healing is high and cooldown is low. GG.

I suggest: Lower healing. Like, halve it or something. Then add a cool secondary effect to it, I'm sure you can find something cool.

Also, why does the heal last longer when target is low on HP? When you are low on HP, what you want is MOAR heal per second, not a longer heal.

I suggest: It always lasts 3 seconds but heal/effect is increased when target is low on HP.


EDIT: Just noticed that you can only use the ability if you have a Passive Charge? That kinda sucks...
Your ability is simply a passive and if you get lucky you can actually do something with it?

I suggest you make the heal the normal active and with deep charge it adds a little bonus effect or more healing.
But the cooldown on the heal is only lower than Soraka's heal at ranks 4 and 5; plus, her heal does more at all ranks with the exception of the 5 second duration. :<

But yes, I understand that Riot has a thing about sustaining. As a result, I made his heal in line with other heals (Soraka and Taric, mostly).

As for the more heal per second as opposed to a longer heal duration, that pretty much falls into the notion of insurmountable sustain. Not only is his heal strictly worse than other heals (it is technically regeneration, not a straight heal, so burst still works through the regen [and ignite :P ]), but it also confers no other buffs (like Soraka's Armor buff or Nidalee's Attack Speed buff). As for the Deep Charges, you get one every four spells in addition to one every 24 seconds. The issue won't be "Will I have a Deep Charge?" Instead, it's going to be, "Where do I want to use my Deep Charge? Heal, AoE knock-up, or single-target snare?"

And what do you think of the mana regeneration? Too high? Too low? Just right? <:3c

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPercy View Post
W: I assume you can use the second part of W before the first one knocked up? That way you can stun the enemy champs to make sure your Geyser will hit? If that's how it works, it's awesome.

Although I have to admit that it does make me think of Cho' Gath Rupture (Q) :/. It's okay, there are some other abilities that are similar in the game.
As a matter of fact, you cannot snare any champions until the geyser hits; if they don't get hit by the geyser, they can't be snared. I thought I put that in the notes under the abilities. :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPercy View Post
E: Simply put, the first E is too weak and the second one is too strong in comparison. I think the problem is that your E doesn't deal much damage and doesn't slow by that much neither. Buff one or both of these aspects.

First part: Base damage too weak (the AP ratio is alright). How long does the slow last? It's quite weak atm.

Second part: Does the main target get the damage from splash too? I hope not lol. The base damage is alright on this one but the AP ratios are weird. I notice the splash has higher base damage but lower AP ratio? 0.8 AP ratio is a little too high if you consider that the first part already had 0.5. That means 1.3 together...It's too high for such a low cooldown ability. 1.3 is Malza'har Ultimate AP ratio lol. Also, it think it kinda sucks that the second part stuns because it will make the slow from the first part useless : O.

I suggest: Increase first part base damage, decrease second part AP ratio. Make the second part slow even more instead of stunning.
My fear with buffing Jellyfish's Sting is that: A) it is a very cheap move to spam in lane and B) it has a 700 range. These two things would result in a very OP champion if the first half of the move was buffed. I'll agree with you on the AP ratio, though; going 1.3 off of two moves, both of which combo into each other is a tad much. And no, the splash damage does not affect the initial target; just the enemies around them.

As for the wasted slow, the supposed combo is to slow the target with Jellyfish's Sting, move a little, use Eel's Lighting to stun, then use Deep Geyser so that the champion, with their roughly second to flee, can't escape a 350 wide AoE knock-up. Either that, or, assuming you only have one Deep Charge available, you just slow them and then guess the Deep Geyser.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPercy View Post
R: Very well done. I like it alot. Not much against it. Except maybe the channel time being a little too high :/. By the time your channel will be done, your abilities will already be off cooldown. lol

Channel time should be almost unnoticeable. Like 1/0.75/0.5 second channel.
Remember, it resets his other cooldowns. Goshg is meant to engage at his pleasure, so that's one of the flavorful reasons why he takes so long to channel his ult. Another mechanical reason is that if the ult was any shorter, he could combo CC people into oblivion. Imagine the combo: E -> Deep Charge -> W -> Deep Charge -> Ult (resets cooldowns and gets Deep Charge(s)) -> E -> Deep Charge -> W -> Deep Charge.

Needless to say, that's a lot of damage and a lot of your opponent waiting for that knock-up to finish so the second snare can start. Still, I like that the biggest grip for you was the cooldown. People usually cite the resetting cooldowns or the innate cooldown reduction. (._.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPercy View Post
I really love your champ. I'm glad to review a champ that isn't broken like hell (lol). Your champ has a good role and he is quite unique. I can easily see him in game. Good job.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DarkPercy

Senior Member

01-09-2012

Alright, good job explaining everything :P.

I have an idea to improve the ultimate! (Because I really think it does need improvement) Stunning yourself for 4.5 second is not a good thing. Reduce the channel time, but simply make it halve your cooldowns! This way:

-You won't have extreme CC
-You won't have extreme damage (you already didn't, there are MUCH more impressive sources of damage in the game)
-You won't waste all the cooldown reduction that your R passive and items give you. (like 70% of support items give CDR)
-You won't stun yourself for 4.5 seconds.
-It's pretty balanced IMO.

What do you think?

PS: I'm kinda disappointed that you can't use the second W before the first one hit :/. It doesn't really have any synergy or reason to be there. Honestly, since you are afraid that your champ is too much a Mage and that he might have too much CC in combination with his ult, why don't you change the snare part already?

I'm sure you can rework it to something else interesting. Removing the snare would solve some problems.


You were afraid the first E would become a too strong harass so I understand that you want to keep the damage low (even though Soraka's Infuse has higher range and higher damage lol).

But you should buff the damage that the two abilities together does because right now without Deep charge, the damage really sucks and with Deep Charge, the damage still sucks lol.

Anyways, these are just suggestions :P.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

evawin

Senior Member

01-14-2012

The deep beckons! >:V


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

evawin

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Art! Praise the deep!~


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

evawin

Senior Member

01-28-2012

I saw Red Posts, and now I am hopeful...dare I dream...? ;-;


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xypherous

Systems Designer

01-28-2012
1 of 2 Riot Posts

So... you took Karma, solved both of her core essential problems (How do I give her an ultimate and how do I not feel bad using my Q to heal people) and wrote incredibly thematic abilities that make intuitive sense.

That's pretty awesome - not gonna lie.

And you were self-controlled enough not to make the ultimate have a secondary charge effect.

I'm a fan.

I really don't have any suggestions on how to make this better - Generally when we have a paper kit like this, we just go implement it and test it to see what shakes out.

(Though I suspect that the 'R' will be a bit underwhelming, we've tried 'adrenaline rush' a couple times before and it's never really panned out. It always sounds cool - but the character that it would fit on has never really surfaced.)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

evawin

Senior Member

01-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
So... you took Karma, solved both of her core essential problems (How do I give her an ultimate and how do I not feel bad using my Q to heal people) and wrote incredibly thematic abilities that make intuitive sense.

That's pretty awesome - not gonna lie.

And you were self-controlled enough not to make the ultimate have a secondary charge effect.

I'm a fan.

I really don't have any suggestions on how to make this better - Generally when we have a paper kit like this, we just go implement it and test it to see what shakes out.

(Though I suspect that the 'R' will be a bit underwhelming, we've tried 'adrenaline rush' a couple times before and it's never really panned out. It always sounds cool - but the character that it would fit on has never really surfaced.)
My body just exploded from glee; Xyph, have my children.

Gushing aside, do you think that he has too much CC? Granted, he goes global for only 2.2 AP (not counting base values and having max Deep Sea Pacts), but he is fairly safe all things considered. Is he anti-fun, or would he have a place on a team (or even in the League)? Finally, do you like the lore; I'm a stickler for lore more than anything. :P


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Stez007

Senior Member

01-28-2012

Could probably give the R a bit of PBAoE damage. I don't think it would be imbalanced, as it 1) makes him better able to fulfill the Mage role with the extra damage and 2) makes his ultimate something that can't be just ignored in teamfights (if all it does is buff him, the enemy team doesnt have much incentive to interrupt it instead of, say, Fiddle's ult).

Perhaps a 400 range AoE of .4AP and 200/400/600 base damage? That way it's threatening even in support role, but not devastating. Worth interrupting if there's not a lot of priority, but still usable in teamfights (instead of needing to hide to use it, like Fid's ult).

Also, perhaps make the channel time a constant 2 seconds, so its more intuitive for the enemy to interrupt it.

Edit: Of course, then you have the problem of whether to use it before or during a teamfight, but I suppose that would also depend on whether you're playing him as a Mage or Support. It's supplemental damage, but I suppose it could seem like its meant to be used mid-fight always instead of situationally pre-fight.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xypherous

Systems Designer

01-28-2012
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Lore
Generally, I'm not a Lore guy in details. I go for distinct themes and impressions rather than straight story a lot of the time. I'm too focused on symbols and interpretations. :x

Quote:
Too much CC?
This is one of the things that testing would reveal/timing. My initial suspicions are that you don't need a Deep Charge every X spellcasts - that the simple timing/cooldown game would be enough. Since a lot of his CC depends on having a Deep Charge effect, that alone might curb the frustration of CC in lane.

At first glance, this doesn't seem to be a whole lot more CC than Alistar or Blitzcrank and it has additional restrictions - unsure - one is a delayed AoE and one requires a melee attack - and CC lengths are dependent on having deep charges - Doesn't seem that out of line to me.

Quote:
Place in LoL
He looks like he could fit kind of well in as a support + CC'er bot lane, like Taric, but with a much less guaranteed stun but decent peel abilities. Seems like he'd be okay. He's kind of a like a Blitzcrank with a heal in terms of what he'd do down there.


12345612 ... 19