[Guide] How to Zhao, A Comprehensive Guide to Destroying Hopes and Dreams

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Raikou

Member

07-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matuk View Post
I can't help but think that Madred's Bloodrazor would benefit him more as a first item than LW.

While it's true you lose out on the armor pen, you also gain magic damage based on the opponent's HP every hit, which also benefits you against armor-stacked targets.
I've always seen LW as an item to get after you notice tanks stacking armor pen and actually being hard to kill.

Cause in my experience, *being* a high-armor tank with my standard build, Zhao will still solo me without the armor pen.
Do they have enough HP that early to make it worth it though?


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Matuk

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Senior Member

07-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikou View Post
Do they have enough HP that early to make it worth it though?
Do they have enough armor that early to make it worth it?

I start with around 30-40 armor and it builds up quickly. 40% of that...doesn't bother me at all, by the time Zhao could afford it..

Not to mention, Maldred's has 20 more AD than the LW does. With your passive armor pen you should have from runes, you'd likely benefit from Maldred's more than LW.
Also consider that I happen to play Cho'gath. Feast is perfectly countered by Madred's.
By the time Zhao gets LW, enemies likely have 1k HP, more if they're tanks. And this is random guessing. 4% of that is 40 damage, though it's reduced some by MR i believe.

The question is if that boost matches LW or beats it. I feel it would beat it, as few people stack MR early, especially against Zhao.
They see Zhao they think "OMG stack armor!"
Instead of stacking armor pen in response, get Madred's.


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Clicksterz

Junior Member

07-18-2010

madreds is 3800 gold, which is just under the price of all three of your main items (Swiftness, Zeal, LW).

you're not thinking in opportunity costs such as time lost. If you save up for Madred's you are going to be weak during your midgame which is where Xin Zhao is strongest.

that is why madred's is worse than LW.

and 'by the time that you could afford it'... 2000 gold is extremely quickly. i've been playing it pretty extensively and have tried alternating into different items such as Starks and the Razor, and they don't compare to LW in terms of item budget. but let's go back to my point above.

you could have either Madred's, or your three items mentioned in my guide. let's do a comparison of your stats:

Razor 3800g
+35 Attack Damage
+40% Attack Speed
+30 Armor
On hit, deals Magic Damage equal to 4% of the target's maximum Health.

Total Cost: 3800g

that's good, don't get me wrong. the armor is kind of a waste, though.

Last Whisper 1965g
+10 Attack Damage
+40% Attack Speed
Attacks penetrate 40% of the defender's armor.

Zeal 1195g
+20% Attack Speed
+10% Critical Strike
+8% Movement Speed

Boots of Swiftness 1000g
Speed 3

Total Cost: 4160g

so for 360 gold more, you're getting 20% additional attack speed, 10% crit, 40% armor penetration, less straight damage but... you have 437 movement speed. that's what ties the items together - i guarantee you that with 40% armor penetration + passives, 60% attack speed, your overall DPS is going to be larger than with Razor, and you're going to be mobile.

again, opportunity costs.


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Wuumaster

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Senior Member

07-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matuk View Post
The question is if that boost matches LW or beats it. I feel it would beat it, as few people stack MR early, especially against Zhao.
They see Zhao they think "OMG stack armor!"
Instead of stacking armor pen in response, get Madred's.
Well reasoned response. One of the reasons I find Warwick to be such a danger is Bloodrazor gives him a large amount of Magical damage to supplement his high attack damage - it's difficult to mitigate both without also screwing your own damage (rendering you a tank instead of a DPS or Caster). As Xin greatly benefits from Attack Speed, the Bloodrazor looks almost custom-tailored for him, boosting Attack Damage, Attack Speed, a touch of Armor, and bonus Magic damage on hit.

I believe that the base magic resistance for most champions is 30 (23%), and that most champions don't gain more per level. That drops the Bloodrazor to 3% health per hit, but champions in the mid-game are likely to have 1000 (a level 10 Annie has 1108) health or more, that's still 30 extra damage a smack. On the other hand, if you have a set of ArPen marks (~18), you'd drop that same Annie from 48.5 (32%) armor to 30.5 (23%), a boost of 9% physical damage. Is 30 damage more or less than the 9%? Mind, those numbers shift depending on champion and items, but isn't too far off.


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Keegan320

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Senior Member

07-18-2010

My How to Zhao, a comprehensive guide to destroying hopes and dreams
Hit e, click enemy. hit w, hit q, click enemy. Congrats, you now own with Xin Zhao.


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LaMilton Taeshan

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Senior Member

07-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keegan320 View Post
My How to Zhao, a comprehensive guide to destroying hopes and dreams
Hit e, click enemy. hit w, hit q, click enemy. Congrats, you now own with Xin Zhao.
umadbro?


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xrats

Senior Member

07-18-2010

1)You dont need to a quide to win with xin.You just have to pick him.
2)Take out your guide after he ll nerfed to the bone in the upcoming patch.Xin is a mistake to the game right now.
3)You ll rarely play him in ranked games anyway since he is permabanned(and there is a reason for this).


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Ramayana

Senior Member

07-18-2010

Id rather see a Xin on the other team than Taric, Soraka, Heimer, or Shen, they are way more of a pain in the ass to play against. The only part about Xin that is OP right now is his Ult. He isn't much harder to control then any other heavy melee champion is.


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Clicksterz

Junior Member

07-18-2010

glad to see the trolls have come out to gnash their teeth

i appreciate each and every post.


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Clicksterz

Junior Member

07-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keegan320 View Post
My How to Zhao, a comprehensive guide to destroying hopes and dreams
Hit e, click enemy. hit w, hit q, click enemy. Congrats, you now own with Xin Zhao.
he even got that wrong you activate Q before W my friend! you waste a little bit of the effect by activating W before Q.