@Riot Teemo NEED buffs, and here is why.

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KaXaSA

Senior Member

01-24-2012

actually i'm with crocodilly there... auto-attack range + skills range matters because you can stay far from combat/ poking... + being far you have more time to react

teemo is stuck with 500 range auto-attack you can count on 1-2 hands how many CC/Nukes don't have a range > 500.

it does matter.

not to mention that move quick's passive does not work while you're taking fire... (enemies/towers) so whenever you try to auto-attack you put yourself in bad postion (because you don't have any choice) your movement speed is gone and now you're stuck with 305 base ms... and a completely unreliable escape mechanism.

overall move quick sucks because of the rest of teemo's skill kit/ base stats (esp. range) + the fact that riot give cc and (or) gap closers to everyone, a simply slow **** up your 'incredible' 22 sec cd speed boost.

a champion with:
short auto-attack range
no burst
no sustain
no hard cc
no steroid
poor escape mechanism

is not a balanced champion.


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Sir Viva Lism

Member

01-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post

Teemo can use changes, I agree. But do it properly. Just buffing Move Quick (some of the things in here are ridiculous) and giving him range will make him completely broken and just get him nerfed back to the dirt in 2 weeks time. Honestly, people wanted using Move Quick to break all CC on him.

You want to give him Olaf/Alistar's ultimates as a W. Seriously, think about what you suggest before you do so.

[Edit] I did some quick math for you on Teemo's Move Quick.

At 305 base speed and with any 2 speed boots, he's at 375 MS. 26% on top of that puts him at 472.5 MS.

Lets say they bumped him up to 320 (note: most AD MELEE champions) and left MQ alone. This only brings him up to 491.4, a net gain of 18.9 MS. This is before any nerf to Move Quick's percentage speed increase.

If they nerfed Move Quick anywhere more than to 22%, Teemo would actually LOSE movement speed, even with a base movement speed increase of FIFTEEN.

Again, keep these things in mind and actually check your math before asking for NERFS to your champion instead of buffs please.
Giving Teemo a cleanse like Olaf on W would be OP but giving him a "Cannot Be Slowed" for three seconds would not (like Yi's Ult missing attack speed bonus)

As far as the "Nerf" your numbers suggest you are not considering the problem with him. We are saying that he is unreliable to move in and out of battle as he stands. If we raise his base MS and remove some of his % on Move Quick you are correct his Top End would be slower but after Move Quick wares off when he is hit he will be faster at his base to escape. We are saying we would be willing to sacrifice the top end of MQ from lane and split pushing to make him more efficient when he is in danger. Its not a nerf at all. If the problem some people seem to have with him (besides his annoyance factor of 99 out of 5) is his split pushing power (supposedly the reason he got the last round of nerfs) this will help them out as well.

Btw, thank you for being perhaps the first person out of 90 plus pages to come at this in a negative light CONSTRUCTIVELY. It is appreciated, no joke.


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Sir Viva Lism

Member

01-24-2012

New idea for camouflage.

Add on a faster (1.5 seconds or 2 seconds) cloaking time in brush, the ability to move cloaked in the brush and or .5 extended stealth after moving (cancelled if any action is taken other then moving)


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holy bongos

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Recruiter

01-24-2012

I just got rocked by a Teemo as Graves because he could out harass me.

Poison dart > Buckshot. Not saying that Teemo doesn't need help, i'm just saying he's a better AD carry than Graves right now at least early game.


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Augurii

Member

01-24-2012

Up until now I haven't really had an account of my own, but I have played Teemo for a while and I disagree on the axis of Teemo getting a complete buff. Thing of it is, Teemo is a horrible push, but an excellent support, he doesn't duel well, but his assisting and harassment tend to be top-notch. With that in mind, I don't want a buff to anything other than Teemo's Q and perhaps a very slight improvement on the poison buildup to make Teemo function earlier in the game (as opposed to having to sit on a turret and farm until equips and poison are strong enough to be lethal)- but that might be pushing it. A full-blown buff however would make Teemo too good at playing support (and possibly make other harassment units less viable.)


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Sir Viva Lism

Member

01-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grailums View Post
I just got rocked by a Teemo as Graves because he could out harass me.

Poison dart > Buckshot. Not saying that Teemo doesn't need help, i'm just saying he's a better AD carry than Graves right now at least early game.
Buckshot - Graves fires three bullets in a cone, damaging all enemies in their paths.
Graves shoots three bullets in a cone, each dealing 60/105/150/195/240 (+ ) physical damage to all enemies in their paths.

Enemies hit with multiple bullets take 25% damage from each additional bullet.

Cost
60/70/80/90/100 Mana
Range
700
Blinding Dart - Obscures an enemy's vision with a powerful venom, dealing damage to the target unit and causing all attacks to miss for the duration.
Deals 80/125/170/215/260 (+0.8) magic damage and causes the target to miss all of their attacks for 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 seconds.

Cost
70/80/90/100/110 Mana
Range
680

Twenty extra damage rocking your world i guess. You are using graves wrong my friend.


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Yfrappefort

Senior Member

01-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Viva Lism View Post
New idea for camouflage.

Add on a faster (1.5 seconds or 2 seconds) cloaking time in brush, the ability to move cloaked in the brush and or .5 extended stealth after moving (cancelled if any action is taken other then moving)
This is very interesting. It would make another champion other than Nidalee benefit more from brush. And honestly, the reduced duration to activate camouflage in brush makes perfect sense.


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Sir Viva Lism

Member

01-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Viva Lism View Post
Giving Teemo a cleanse like Olaf on W would be OP but giving him a "Cannot Be Slowed" for three seconds would not (like Yi's Ult missing attack speed bonus)
Thought about the cleanse thing again over dinner.
Changed my mind.
I ate an orange and now its k.


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Sir Viva Lism

Member

01-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augurii View Post
Up until now I haven't really had an account of my own, but I have played Teemo for a while and I disagree on the axis of Teemo getting a complete buff. Thing of it is, Teemo is a horrible push, but an excellent support, he doesn't duel well, but his assisting and harassment tend to be top-notch. With that in mind, I don't want a buff to anything other than Teemo's Q and perhaps a very slight improvement on the poison buildup to make Teemo function earlier in the game (as opposed to having to sit on a turret and farm until equips and poison are strong enough to be lethal)- but that might be pushing it. A full-blown buff however would make Teemo too good at playing support (and possibly make other harassment units less viable.)
The op has a list of problems and solutions. His solutions do not include "A full-blown buff" and it is even stated in the OP that if all the solutions were implemented that riot would have gone to far.

"*IMPORTANT* This is a list of what Riot COULD be changing to improve Teemo. Granted, buffing some things would nullify the need to boost others. I'm not asking for a boost in all of these (it would be silly), but rather at some of these. Just proposing ideas as to how each of these could be improved. I don't want him to be OP. I want him to be balanced. Huge difference. *IMPORTANT*" ~Yfrappefort

Please go back and read the OP completely before responding again so we can discuss it.

There is a lot to argue with here but the one thing that stands out is you are completely flipped toxic dart. His poison may need a slight bump for late game ether in AP ratio or base damage (not both or big). What he absolutely does NOT need is a bump for his early game damage on poison what so ever. This is where he is strongest if you give him any... ANY bump in poison on the beginning game he will be considered OP and any buff he actually needs will be thrown out the window.


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Cronovey

Senior Member

01-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Viva Lism View Post
Giving Teemo a cleanse like Olaf on W would be OP but giving him a "Cannot Be Slowed" for three seconds would not (like Yi's Ult missing attack speed bonus)

As far as the "Nerf" your numbers suggest you are not considering the problem with him. We are saying that he is unreliable to move in and out of battle as he stands. If we raise his base MS and remove some of his % on Move Quick you are correct his Top End would be slower but after Move Quick wares off when he is hit he will be faster at his base to escape. We are saying we would be willing to sacrifice the top end of MQ from lane and split pushing to make him more efficient when he is in danger. Its not a nerf at all. If the problem some people seem to have with him (besides his annoyance factor of 99 out of 5) is his split pushing power (supposedly the reason he got the last round of nerfs) this will help them out as well.

Btw, thank you for being perhaps the first person out of 90 plus pages to come at this in a negative light CONSTRUCTIVELY. It is appreciated, no joke.
The OP should reflect his original post to actually reflect this information; a well worded post with good information would be much more likely to receive a red post in here, because the way his post is worded makes him sound much worse off than he truly is.

I would love for Teemo to be more viable, especially for ranked play, for something other than specific counter picks here and there. I actually quite enjoy playing him, but I also enjoy winning and unfortunately my odds are much higher with champions like Graves and Caitlyn right now.