Heimerdinger Exhaustively Examined

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crzymdscntst

Senior Member

01-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderDDT View Post
They may /think/ he is fixed and balanced at this point.
Yeah, but that still doesn't mean he doesn't topple after a point.

I do think a lot of weird things that make sense in an odd way. For example, his turrets do too much, so they can't be buffed in any sort of way that makes solid sense. His Grenade does a lot, but so little in reality. And his ultimate, well, I've been saying it all over this thread.

They nerfed his 30% cooldown reduction at some point I know, but the Ulti itself is useless. I mean, the slow is nice, but doesn't actually do much. The other two are just jokes.

I've come up with some creative ideas, but frankly it's Riot's game, not mine. So even if my ideas are semi-valid, it would pose a difficult time for Riot to impose them. If 1 million people think the same thing, it's one thing, however if everyone thinks something different, you can't please everyone.


His turrets are his "Fun" point, but his rockets are just as fun. His grenade used to be fun, being one of the only skills that could damage a turret, it lost it somewhere along the way. Sure it's great CC, but it's lacking that element that made it fun.

Frankly I think they need to rework the Ulti into a different skill that feels "Ultimate!". The Grenade needs a tweak to how it's applied if it's going to keep up with the game. The Rockets... well, they have minor flaws, but they're his most valid skill. The Turrets have balance issues when applied to Heim. His passive... it's nice to heal a tower, but frankly wasting that much time (1 minute to heal a tower? 4 towers healed?) is pointless IMO (Not efficient compared to what a waste the skill is actually going to).


I think they need to separate his turrets more into something more manageable, like Twisted Fate's Pick-A-Card system, except more reliable, rather than timed.

__________________________________________________ __

I had a wonky idea I've grown fond of for that, but again, Riot doesn't use suggestions as solid plans, simply because they need to cater to the widest group of players:

A system of Q>Yellow>Q>Green>Q>Red, casts upon click, allowing choice rather than hoping to get the correct one, right click to move and cancel casting, turret marked stays in cast, first Q brings up last turret picked if not-mid cast on the skill.

It would likely look like:

Yellow
- Most Damage, Highest Range

Green - Lowest damage; MR and Armor Shred (2 per poke, instead of 1.), More Health, More Defense per turret, Medium Range

Red
- Mid damage, AoE damage (Slightly raised radius), normal damage to minions, Lowest Range

Variance in range is by 100, assuming about 600 is max range, yellow would be 600, green would be 550, red would be 500. (This is subject to change simply because in-game measurement is a bit more difficult)

Possible 4th color:

Blue - Low damage Mid-range, Slows enemy, Larger cast range

Other effects to toss around and balance per color:
-Applies on-hits
-Has spellvamp
-Attack Speed variations or flat across?
-All current turrets deal reduced damage to towers, make 1 color excel at it?
-Base and AP ratio, making 1 turret deal more with more AP and one deal more baseline? (Likely Green would have highest Base, Yellow having highest scaling)
-Cast Radius change, higher radius the shorter the range of the turret.
__________________________________________________ ________

I mean, what I was thinking is that by separating what the turrets did in such a manner, Riot could more easily tweak the power and defenses up without worry of them being broken. I feel this isn't the best solution, but something similar might work better. (Maybe give him back 3 turrets, put each turret onto a skill, Q, W, E as an alternate ability that comes with his Ulti? Like Nidalee sorta.)

Frankly the issue I feel is most relevant is that he has so much stacked onto each ability, that he can't excel at anything and thus doesn't work as solidly.


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Raekwon Tha Chef

Member

01-14-2012

You should play him in dom, he can dominate the bot lane if they don't have a strong counter for heim.


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EnderDDT

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Senior Member

01-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raekwon Tha Chef View Post
You should play him in dom, he can dominate the bot lane if they don't have a strong counter for heim.
He only dominates if they loose their heads and do something stupid or if they fail to gank. I usually take either Rammis or Corki bot and ruin him. Besides, the players are fine with toning back his early game if they can get a competent mid-to-late game out of him.


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Orbv

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Senior Member

01-15-2012

Wow long post, but very true.I would like to see Heimerdinger be more than a let down in my games.


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ItsJustPain

Senior Member

01-15-2012

When i pick Heimerdinger in champ picks
I get people @@$^#@#% he is useless,
he can't team fight.
we already have a mid
we got Ap already

I get this a lot
but he is my main guy
I love using this champ
even tho he is UP

What people do not know about him
He is more then just a AP mage
he is a pusher
He is a bait
He is a jungler
most of all he is a boss

With the smarts to play him
he can beat any one 1v1 hands down

I handle gangs up to 3 champs at me
because i was already max leveled and with hour glass and high hp
=D
I use him to do back doors and defend towers


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Lord Melons

Senior Member

01-15-2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbIx0dGY7B0

Heimer isn't my main but I agree, I know how Heimerdinger players feel.(Orianna main pre-nerf).


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EnderDDT

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Senior Member

01-20-2012

Bump


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BOW5ER

Senior Member

01-20-2012

@crzymdscntst
good idea's and they could be implemented many different ways to =3.
Another possibility Is having Higher AP ratios for lower ranked turrets, A player could choose to wait to lvl up the turrets or not at all or only some to maintain certain stats. This would make a trade off between late game power or increased kit ability/cc early - mid game.

BTW what would making the missile shorter range but have them cause a skill "interrupt" do to Heimer? Is it an OP/UP change or could it have good trade offs for such a utility - I'm looking for a variety of fopinions.


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Injerreau

Junior Member

01-20-2012

Heimer is fine just learn to use him


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BOW5ER

Senior Member

01-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Injerreau View Post
Heimer is fine just learn to use him
Such a good examination of Heimerdinger's qualities. All his connections and evaluations show without comparison that not a single attribute is shown wanting. Pssshhhh he's fine indeed