Sejuani and female champs

First Riot Post
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Dalehan

Member

01-13-2012

Give her the physique of a female orc from Lineage 2. They look strong without losing physical appeal.


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Michael Kane

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenode View Post
The reason I don't get about this argument is.

You see all these beautiful women in games with large breasts, but we don't complain about all these insanely big muscles/ladys man/good looking men that are CONSTANTLY in games.

Where's the hero for us sensitive men (No amumu doesn't count)
Ezreal, Taric, Twisted fate( he is a not super manly but just normal dude champ) hippie zilean?


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Shadow Maiden

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Junior Member

01-13-2012

I don't get it why men are so affected with the female champs being sexy and everything...while i do agree that yes it's not 'practical" or what not for them to have heels when they are out there fighting each other but isn't it more sexist that you think that girls with heels and that are sexy and beautiful are just pretty faces? It is more empowering for us girls to see models that have sexy clothes and high stilettos but still can KICK some ass. So do you mean that only girls with broad shoulders and wear plates that "men" typically wear can be tough? Appearances can be deceiving...even if some girls are sexy or scantily clad it doesn't mean all they are *** figures or pretty faces...is it really hard to accept that a woman can be sexy and yet TOUGH at the same time? So we have to wear plates, helms, flats to be able to show that we can do what men can? So basically we have to look like a guy or whatnot to be able to say we are tough and strong and powerful. The fact that they have RIVEN, SHYVANA, TRISTANA, POPPY, LEONA proves that they care and that they want to push boundaries but really, do you have to say that sexy models are just impractical and promote different thinking like being sexist and everything? If they are being sexist, then all female champs should be just supports and not tanks, junglers or carries cause that's the meaning of sexist...one gender is just better but i don't see that. I just want to applaud Riot for coming up with sexy, beautiful, tough and powerful female champs that are on par (or sometimes even stronger) with male champs. I for one am a fan of the art and model that you create esp those with high heels ^ ^ cause i LOVE shoes soo much (hihihih)....it's soo empowering. I'm looking forward to more champs and skins that are sexy yet look badass!


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AdventHawk7

Senior Member

01-13-2012

OP wants this.

https://www.google.com/search?q=female+bodybuilder&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=kqK&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&prmd=imvnsl&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=Rw gQT6rMEpOQ0QHYuMSLDw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd= 2&ved=0CCIQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=596


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Getjiggywithit2

Senior Member

01-13-2012

I don't mean to sound ignorant but I don't get why the appearances of video games characters are so important to some people. I'd play a fat or thin female as long as I enjoy their play style. What bothers me more is how people feel like they have to be ultra fit and sexy irl because of the way we get celebrities and their perfect physiques rammed down our throats at every opportunity. You can't win a talent show or sell records these days unless you're talented and sexy and that bothers me more than the females in LoL. Besides, as someone said there is a reason for the champions all looking a certain way. There is no reason that we all need to look gorgeous just to walk down the street.


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Dalehan

Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Getjiggywithit2 View Post
I don't mean to sound ignorant but I don't get why the appearances of video games characters are so important to some people. I'd play a fat or thin female as long as I enjoy their play style. What bothers me more is how people feel like they have to be ultra fit and sexy irl because of the way we get celebrities and their perfect physiques rammed down our throats at every opportunity. You can't win a talent show or sell records these days unless you're talented and sexy and that bothers me more than the females in LoL. Besides, as someone said there is a reason for the champions all looking a certain way. There is no reason that we all need to look perfect just to walk down the street.
Susan Boyle is such a hottie, amirite?


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Getjiggywithit2

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalehan View Post
Susan Boyle is such a hottie.
Last I checked she hasn't been selling as well as Katy Perry or Lady Gaga lately.


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Aaydin

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Senior Member

01-13-2012

Iron Stylus, you have become my favorite red and I hope you see this.

I have to remark that when I got wind of a female boar champ months ago, I really hoped for something more like Mitsuko's transformed self from Bloody Roar (google it). We need more monsters on the fields, even if they're humanoid. We can still identify with them (I believe a red previously posted about not doing many monster champs because they don't fit into the lore behind LoL as well but also because we don't identify with them), but we gain more mysticism and fantasy feel with monsters.

Additionally, if you can get away with it, google Jamie Eason (borders, or may be, on the NSFW so care here). She's quite attractive imo, but she's got the strength to wield something heavy in battle and I'd guess the dexterity to it effectively, she won't be lacking for mobility (those legs...). Even leaning more this direction may help break that mold of the female body archetype. Granted, everything aside from her arms still appears quite feminine, but hey, maybe its a start and it avoids the extremes (like female body builders, ugh).


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Snowy Poro

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I've yet to have time to read those articles but I shall do so when I get the chance.

Also.. don't make me get into how Leona's heels actually are a paragon of function and classy design!

Anywhoozle, funny thing is, when I was doing a bit of work on Sejuani, we made an effort to make sure she didn't look dainty. In the art spotlight you're looking at a very action-y pose which may make her diminish because that boar is just so ready to throttle you.

That being said, yes, often in the video game industry, and the entertainment industry, there is a "standardization" of female form. I'm as guilty of it as any other artist when designing. Leona is a tall curvy lady which in my mind is "idealized". We're artists, we like "ideal" and sometimes default to it. (REMEMBER! I'm keeping "Ideal" in QUOTES! "Ideal" is not an "Ideal" term for what I'm "Ideally" trying to explain) That isn't to say that our lexicon is or should be limited to a particular scope, but let's be honest, a lot of natural human tendency which is often hardwired into us makes us gravitate towards particular biological attributes. I'm not trying to defend that gravitation, but I am saying that we are many times inexorably drawn to it... no art pun intended.

Let's also consider something. Readability. In the game, the characters are fairly small, nyez? So, we do often I believe have to make sure we're making sure to make sure that the figure is readable as a girl or guy. How do we do this? Well, proportion, accentuation, exaggeration, etc. Want the feminine form to read in a game? Welp, guess what, it might have to be a bit more famine and/or stylized than usual to read at the proper distance and keep readable when moving. That's just making sure we cover the basics of simple silhouette recognition. If we make her too broad, you might mistake Sejuani for a male, that'd be, ya know, not what we want.

Now, that said, and I may be at bit too full of microwave mashed potatoes at this point, but I do have certain issues with certain champs and their body types. I do flinch here and there when I consider the logistics that certain clothing might entail. However, as an artist, as a gamer, I'm looking for something that's rewarding to my eye. Sometimes that might be a dynamic silhouette, sometimes maybe the nuanced movement of a character, possibly the hardwired biological aspect, or any other pleasing imagery. As a gamer and as an artist, I want a visual reward. That's a lot of what gaming is and art for that matter. Engagement -> Reward.

Particularly though, at least speaking for myself, I also want to know how that armor or lack thereof functions! But, what is the trade off? Do I think Sejuani might need to make a trip to Sports Chalet and get some heavy winter gear? Possibly.. BUT! I also want her to be wearing something more interesting than a Columbia snowboarding jacket and I also want her to read clearly when I play her. That's a whole lot in the equation.

There's trade-offs to everything, and sometimes we don't even know those trade-offs on a conscious level. If you saw Sejuani in a head to toe outfit, or heavily armor-clad, or maybe beefier, well, that actually presents a slew of other visual problems to work out. We then have problems with whether we could tell her gender or not. The boar (Let's take get a betting game going to see if you can guess the boar's name) might indicate, given another armor or outfit situation, that she's a guy. Thickening her up, while addressing how a chick could wield such a weapon comes at a risk of her looking like a male also. We wanted her to be fit and vicious. Adding particular types of clothing, mass, armor, etc might detract from that... also! You haven't seen all her skins yet! Maybe you'll find something cool in there! =D

Personally? I like the more "reasonably" clad gals, but hey, that's why I gravitate towards champs like Leona. But heck, while Sejuani has her own visual style, and unique challenges, I am not opposed to her being taken in the direction she has been. I think our goal is to provide a rewarding experience, sometimes we have to suspend our otherwise pesky disbelief and roll with it. Will we push limits in the future? Yes. Will we also work within pre-established motifs, structures, archetypes and the tendencies for the unconscious mind to latch onto particular tropes as long as we find the situation appropriate? Yes.

Regardless, I'm not sure if this is all making any sense. I'm pretty tired. Also, ya know. Mashed potatoes. Either way, I enjoy these discussions and I'd like to keep having them. There's a lot we go through over here when we design champs artistically and believe me, nothing you're saying hasn't been discussed or not thought over. In the end, we're having fun, and we hope you are too!
The great parrot has spoken!


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FeedinAndTrollin

Senior Member

01-13-2012

She may look a bit small but from the looks of the image she looks about right for what the image is

She shouldn't be big/strong looking shes sort of like nid to me