@ riot: WW

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rekenner

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Senior Member

12-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ191 View Post
The only reason he isn't absolute eve tier in jungle imo is because his Q applies red buff now. If you can't get a kill and are forced to jungle 24/7 you won't hit 6 til around 8 minutes in.
No, Eve is actually a better jungler than him. Not even joking.


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Senkred

Member

12-05-2011

ww is fine solo top and he seems to be fine in jungle.....decently geared tankwick wont die qq D:


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Zachgoose

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12-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ191 View Post
Out of place? He is one of the slowest if not the slowest of the core junglers (not including people who can viably jungle post-nerf), and his ganks pre 6 are probably the weakest, with post 6 not getting that much better when he has the likes of skarner and nocturne to contend with. Skarner E applies redbuff now and I think nocs fear does as well (it should as it's single target anyway) *shudders*.


Right now if you can't get a kill, it takes a good 8 or 9 minutes just to hit 6 from jungling.
You're right about his speed. Like I said in an earlier post, I think it would be best if they altered his E in some way to help him get from camp to camp faster (as champions like Skarner and Udyr have movement speed steroids, while characters like Lee Sin can completely jump through walls). It would help to put him on par with more modern junglers by improving his clear speed and his ganks.

He's by no means a terrible pick. I just feel he needs to be updated a bit to adapt to the new jungle and compete with other characters.


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Morello

Lead Designer

12-05-2011
1 of 8 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachgoose View Post
Well, he's by no means a bad jungler. It's just that a lot of other people are so much better than him in the jungle, so he feels a bit out of place at the moment.
Others are faster, but he's actually not that much slower. I play WW more than I do other junglers, and while he's not a top-tier speed jungler (though he was slow even before), you can mitigate this with:

* Boots or Longsword start

* 21 Offense

* 34% ASpd Runebook

WW's level 6 gank is still one of the best setups to secure your lane kills. Two of the slower junglers have some of the most devestating Level 6's - namely WW and Fiddlesticks. Gank quality is something you can measure vs speed as a quality...if you want top speed, there are better choices. If you want reliable ganks to feed solo's kills, WW is a great choice.

We'll see how this pans out a bit more - the nice thing is we can adjust WW and remove some of his sustain to increase speed if it's needed. I just want to be sure that it is first - all junglers who offer some quality shouldn't have to compete vs others for top times.


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HappinessFactory

Senior Member

12-05-2011

I've only seen you play fiddle morello, and from that i dont think you're the best to judge jungler's strengths :/


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Zink

Senior Member

12-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Others are faster, but he's actually not that much slower. I play WW more than I do other junglers, and while he's not a top-tier speed jungler (though he was slow even before), you can mitigate this with:

* Boots or Longsword start

* 21 Offense

* 34% ASpd Runebook

WW's level 6 gank is still one of the best setups to secure your lane kills. Two of the slower junglers have some of the most devestating Level 6's - namely WW and Fiddlesticks. Gank quality is something you can measure vs speed as a quality...if you want top speed, there are better choices. If you want reliable ganks to feed solo's kills, WW is a great choice.

We'll see how this pans out a bit more - the nice thing is we can adjust WW and remove some of his sustain to increase speed if it's needed. I just want to be sure that it is first - all junglers who offer some quality shouldn't have to compete vs others for top times.
sustain is WW's only niche atm.

if you want a really strong level 6 gank you can chose skarner for virtually the same thing and a way faster clear time, and his sustain isnt that far behind WW's either.


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Morello

Lead Designer

12-05-2011
2 of 8 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destort View Post
I've only seen you play fiddle morello, and from that i dont think you're the best to judge jungler's strengths :/
I'm a pretty bad Fiddle, but my assessment is correct - Fiddle has always been slower, safer, and had fantastic level 6 ganks. Also, good analysis and design is enhanced by skill, but not wholly dependent on it - if it were, I'd just hire top tier players wholesale...it'd make recruiting much easier.


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huskandhunger

Senior Member

12-05-2011

Thank you for your insight Morello!

Soo many people have been complaining! Sheesh, I really feel Warwick is alright where he is. Certainly there are faster jungles, but this does not make Warwick bad in itself.


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Morello

Lead Designer

12-05-2011
3 of 8 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zink View Post
sustain is WW's only niche atm.

if you want a really strong level 6 gank you can chose skarner for virtually the same thing and a way faster clear time, and his sustain isnt that far behind WW's either.
Skarner's 6 gank is strong, true. It's a little less reliable due to no blink, but not by much.


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Broken94

Senior Member

12-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Others are faster, but he's actually not that much slower. I play WW more than I do other junglers, and while he's not a top-tier speed jungler (though he was slow even before), you can mitigate this with:

* Boots or Longsword start

* 21 Offense

* 34% ASpd Runebook

WW's level 6 gank is still one of the best setups to secure your lane kills. Two of the slower junglers have some of the most devestating Level 6's - namely WW and Fiddlesticks. Gank quality is something you can measure vs speed as a quality...if you want top speed, there are better choices. If you want reliable ganks to feed solo's kills, WW is a great choice.
Or here is an idea. Why don't I use someone else like skarner who can clear the jungle faster, do more damage, has suppression as well (a better form too...can move, Ya less range but flash solves that or an actual smart gank attempt) and is just about overall more tanky unless you go straight tank warwick.

You can not tell me WW's ganking power is actually good enough for him to be sub par everywhere else. Hell I would rather jungle with Wukong who's ult does more damage and knocks them up AND can even get someone who flashes if he is smart and saves nimbus.

There is just no way I see warwick viable over other powerhouse junglers. And 34% AS runebook? You do realize you are giving up so many other stats that will help in more situations. IE: Defense stats for teamfights.

I would even be willing to say Warwick is probably the least useful jungler now out of all the mainstream junglers. His damage is subpar, his speed in jungle is slow, and he is only really used as a 1 person stun bot. Which there are other champs that can do more in a teamfight to help their team.

Edit: Don't want to sound like an ass but I just see no way that you would pick WW over....Anyone at this point. He just doesn't do anything better than anyone anymore.