Who is the worst champion at dominion.

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A2ZOMG

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Senior Member

12-04-2011

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Originally Posted by DedPheonix View Post
His value is not in getting tons of kills, thats what is going over your head. He has the BEST STUN IN THE GAME. And yes, it has a somewhat longer cooldown, but if used right, you can get it off twice in a battle often. Thats enough for a semi competent team to kill at least 2 of them for FREE.
Veigar's stun is the best stun in the game? Maybe. On Summoners Rift where 5v5 teamfights actually matter and where team comps are more balanced and much better at shutting down assassins. But this isn't Summoner's Rift. Most skirmishes that happen usually are 2-3 man affairs initially, with a 4th person coming in by surprise it things look like they need help.

I would much rather play Shen, Rammus, or Alistar on Dominion if all I wanted to do was constantly roam around tossing disables at everyone. Or heck, I'd actually rather play Garen, whose 2.5 second silence in many matchups actually is more crippling than Veigar's non-maxed stun. And Garen at any rate is a tier 1 champ in terms of damage output and mobility while Veigar has absolutely zero practical damage output and bad mobility.

You know what's worse? The extremely high popularity of assassins in Dominion. Especially ones like Talon, Poppy, Akali, and Kassadin in Dominion, who don't give a **** if you toss a stun somewhere when they can completely evade it and 2shot you. If you at least had damage, you would have options against them besides staying the **** away from them and hoping for a killsteal.

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Ok then, why dont you try redefining his role in dominion as a support champ, and try building him as such? If he has to solo, he can get away easily with his stun. Level Dark Matter with top priority, and use it farm. By the time its level 3-4 it will wipe out a minion wave instantly. Dark Matter is also your main form of damage in the build I use. Yes, its harder to land, but I use it similar to Spirit Fire. I try to hit minions and the opponent in the same stroke. Sometimes I hit the opponent and do good damage, sometimes I dont, but its never wasted, because I took out a few minions too. If you time it right, you can use his stun to land a dark matter too. Dark Matter does good damage, and you can drive opponents back with it in combo with his stuns, but you are unlikely to get kills. Kills unto themselves do not rule dominion. This is why I do well with him. I also get multiple tanky support items which make veigar a nightmare in a group fight.
Yeah see, I'd much rather play Annie instead of Veigar, who farms a lot better than he does, has easier to land stuns, and has significantly lower cooldowns while not really losing out in burst for most of the game.

You know what's also better than Veigar's stun? Malzahar's silence. More spammable, and disables people longer. And Malzahar can actually push creep waves incredibly well, AND he 1v1s the vast majority of the cast like a boss.

Really now, think for a moment just how outclassed Veigar is, when he has to max out CDR just to spam a long cooldown stun that actually has a fairly high chance of not hitting the targets he needs to hit, given the high presence of assassins in Dominion.

And when even with max CDR, there are still better abilities for disabling people. Silencing an assassin in many cases is better than stunning them when you consider that most silences usually last longer than stuns, and also have lower cooldowns.

Heck, Karthus's slow is a better move than Veigar's stun in Dominion. Why? Because it actually helps your team kill things fast for 5 seconds. And let's not get started about the other broken things Karthus does that make him tier 1 unlike Veigar.


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TouchinMyself

Senior Member

12-05-2011

Not that i am saying you're wrong about veigar. He's good but outclassed for sure but to say silence is better than stun is just plain wrong. Even if it does last longer a stun is still better in just about every way.

Stun = no dodge, no attack, no cast, NOTHING
Silence = No cast but can still do everything else.

See how good your silence does against the tons of AD carries. In fact silence me while im playing kog maw and you're still going to die 90% of the time.

And no Karthus slow is NOT better than veigars stun. Thats just being silly. Slowing the enemies move speed dont help your team kill any faster and im not really sure why you would think this.

Veigar may be outclassed but a well placed stun by him can be devastating.


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A2ZOMG

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12-05-2011

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Originally Posted by TouchinMyself View Post
Not that i am saying you're wrong about veigar. He's good but outclassed for sure but to say silence is better than stun is just plain wrong. Even if it does last longer a stun is still better in just about every way.
A silence can be significantly better than a stun when is lasts longer

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Stun = no dodge, no attack, no cast, NOTHING
Silence = No cast but can still do everything else.
Most of the best champions in Dominion are good because of ABILITY BURST KEEP IN MIND. Jax is pretty much the main exception given his advantage is item scaling.

A longer silence in many situations is in fact more practical than a stun in Dominion because of this.

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See how good your silence does against the tons of AD carries. In fact silence me while im playing kog maw and you're still going to die 90% of the time.
Remind me which AD carries are good. Last time I checked, besides GP and Jax, they're pretty unremarkable. I can argue all day why Tryndamere is actually worse in Dominion than he is in SR, and Master Yi is still pretty mediocre. And I don't even think there is a single ranged AD carry that is even remotely close to being a high tier high priority pick/ban in Dominion.

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And no Karthus slow is NOT better than veigars stun. Thats just being silly. Slowing the enemies move speed dont help your team kill any faster and im not really sure why you would think this.
Armor/MR debuff AND slow for 5 seconds >>>>> 2 second stun. I don't even know how you argue against this. The former actually lets you kill people really easily especially since Karthus does damage. The latter is ok but Veigar does **** damage.

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Veigar may be outclassed but a well placed stun by him can be devastating.
Sure. And with max CDR it's on like a 12 second cooldown for most of the game, and Veigar does **** at everything else.

And other people actually do better than he does at disrupting the other team. And are less squishy.

I win games quite often with Veigar in Dominion. Usually I end up ranked around 3rd at best and have a KDA score of like...8/5/13. A lot of people however are just completely terrible at the game though.

With an actually legitimate champ like Garen or Karthus? I'm almost always ranked first, and as Garen I'm running a score like 25/3/20. With Karthus more like 18/15/30.


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OakOwl

Member

12-05-2011

Katarina!

j/k. She's my fav.

Champs I almost never see: Xerath, Vladimir, Veigar, Trundle, Swain, Mordekaiser, Karma, Gragas, Dr. Mundo, and Anivia.
Personally, I think that any champ can do well in the right hands with the right team. However, there are reasons why we don't see these guys as often.
I've actually tried all of these in Dominion except Mordekaiser and Veigar. I've had some success with Anivia and Swain. Few wins with Trundle. I tried Xerath on free week and got owned cuz I was noob at him.
However, I think that all of these champs either have real or perceived weaknesses that lead to us seeing less of them on the Crystal Scar.
I want to add that I think Trundle has the best tower capturing animation in the game. If you've yet to see it, try it. ;o)


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TouchinMyself

Senior Member

12-05-2011

Your reasoning is very flawed but im too tired to get into it. Bottom line stun is better than silence. Silence really only hurts half the champs in the game, allows champs to escape unlike a stun, stun lets you close gaps or get away unlike silence, stun negates dodge etc. Name one reason silence is better... Lasting longer only matters against some champs and even against those stun is still better 90% of the time.

Silence is not better than stun. Even against burst AP silence leaves the option of retreat.

What happens when you silence a burst AP champ? If they have any brains they back out of range and wait.

What happens if you stun them? They die...

I understand being stubborn and trying to stick to your argument but you're dead wrong.


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WastedChimp

Member

12-05-2011

Morde is pretty bad and i like galio and shen there I have destroyed with both you just gotta play them right i always get some ap because everyone in dom needs to be dishin out some kind of damage


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A2ZOMG

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12-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by TouchinMyself View Post
Your reasoning is very flawed but im too tired to get into it. Bottom line stun is better than silence. Silence really only hurts half the champs in the game, allows champs to escape unlike a stun, stun lets you close gaps or get away unlike silence, stun negates dodge etc. Name one reason silence is better... Lasting longer only matters against some champs and even against those stun is still better 90% of the time.
Lasting longer matters a lot more than you're giving it credit for. If my enemy can't flash away for longer, that means I get to focus them longer with all my melee bruisers who have NO trouble keeping up with them and bursting them down. Dominion is dominated largely by mobile bruisers and assassins with good burst power. The most important thing for them is making sure the enemy doesn't blink away for a potential get out of jail free.

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Silence is not better than stun. Even against burst AP silence leaves the option of retreat.
Against Garen? Rammus? Kassadin? Akali? Talon? Fizz? Xin Zhao? Karthus? You mad bro? These guys don't give a **** how far you try to walk away if you're silenced for over 3 seconds. You just get destroyed as long as you remain disabled.

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What happens when you silence a burst AP champ? If they have any brains they back out of range and wait
No, they TRY to back away unable to flash and get ****ed if the other team is any good at focussing.

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What happens if you stun them? They die...
Unless they flash over a wall with 100 hp left, hit ghost, burn mobility/escape steroids, and get out of jail for free. It actually does happen.


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Tiranui

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Recruiter

12-05-2011

I don't like nunu and trundle on this map


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slowfiveoh

Senior Member

12-05-2011

Uh Galio is amazing in Dominion. Use him to boost friendlies and throw resolute smites with a minimum of MR and build him beefy AP mostly. I have had good success with a RoA, Rabadons and Morellos. He can chain slow like a bawss.


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Demosthenes

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Senior Member

12-05-2011

*I only read the first page /disclaimer

Morde, Vlad, and Mundo are weak on Dominion... or just weak in general? Pretty sure it's the latter not the former. In terms of kit, I think they're all quite viable on Dominion. Morde and Vlad should both be beast defenders, and Mundo's ability to regen and stay on the map should be strong as well. I think right now these heroes are all just a tad too low on the number side. Vlad because his sustain/survive was hilariously broken on SR due to his kit, Mundo because he breaks TT if he's any stronger, and Morde for similar reasons to Vlad.