Living Tier List

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GrignardTS

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Its not quite just that; if you're vsing a team with a decent rammus and you don't have one, you've de-facto given up windmill at least for a little while. Powerball + ghost + wind pad = >1k speed rammus for several seconds, enough to get him up to Windmill in time to cap it without contest.
There are many champions that can get to windmill very quickly at start.

Like Shaco for example.

In fact, having both Shaco and Rammus is a guarenteed capture with a well placed box and two on point


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Gene Hikaze

Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
S Tier
Needs to be banned


Rammus, Poppy, AD Shaco.
The only person I agree with here is Rammus. He is the only champ that should be banned 100% of the time.

Poppy being an S Tier is a joke in my opinion because 1) She is weak against ANY CC which teams are bound to have. One slow, one stun, one bind and she becomes an insta-squishy. 2) She's fast but not as fast as say Teemo or even Janna. Speed is not a legitimate reason to S tier a champ. 3) Her ultimate is not as OP as people claim. Most poppy players don't use it right and once they score the kill they die HARD.

Shaco as an S Tier is against your own ruling system. He's only useful as one build, therefore not OP. Most players do not build AD Shaco for whatever reason and generally tend to just gank/die/gank/die....

I will be back to finish the rest of this response later as that my 15 min q just found a match...


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Firewind View Post
The only person I agree with here is Rammus. He is the only champ that should be banned 100% of the time.

Poppy being an S Tier is a joke in my opinion because 1) She is weak against ANY CC which teams are bound to have. One slow, one stun, one bind and she becomes an insta-squishy. 2) She's fast but not as fast as say Teemo or even Janna. Speed is not a legitimate reason to S tier a champ. 3) Her ultimate is not as OP as people claim. Most poppy players don't use it right and once they score the kill they die HARD.
1) Have you seen her ultimate used correctly before?

2) So you name two of the fastest champions in the game as your case to why she's not fast? She's much faster than most, that is good enough.

3) Most players don't use it right? That's a player problem, not a reason to claim balance.

Quote:
Shaco as an S Tier is against your own ruling system. He's only useful as one build, therefore not OP. Most players do not build AD Shaco for whatever reason and generally tend to just gank/die/gank/die....
So when Gunblade stacking Akali was OP, it did not matter because of one build? And boy, because people at low ELO don't build him correctly and die instantly....that MUST mean he is completely balanced.

He doesn't do too much damage, he doesn't have too much mobility, CC, or elusiveness. His kit is too powerful on Dominion. This makes him God tier. His combination of map awareness, 1v1 ability, 1v2 ability, CC, elusiveness, defending points with boxes, jungle control, ganks, burst damage, and much more makes him god tier.

You arguing against this just shows you have not seen his true power yet.


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Psi21

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
No. I don't need to do anytihng.

My tier breakings represent my approach to the balance of Dominion. Which apparently, you feel many champions exceed others. I do not. Most are situational as Dominion, like SR, is a team comp based game. People just cannot see it yet.
No. Because you need to spread them out. What is worse is those Tier lists that are accepted are limited in champs. One of the most well known like this is Elementz. So do yourself a favor and be taken seriously because right now your Tier list doesn't look it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
AD and AP are equal in most of the hybrid characters of dominion. This way no exception for Shaco, until the recent JitB nerfs.

The activate range nerf was too much. It makes AP Shaco's team fighting much worse. And since in dominion, you never NEED to enter the jungle, you can push minion waves easily to trigger them on points, and oracles are nice and cheep (with Dominion's gp10 I might add), AP Shaco's JitBs use are very limited.

This leaves him with Shiv. Which is amazing late game and with a lot of AP. About the 12-15 minute mark.
No it, leaves AP Shaco with... Deceive, JitBs, Shiv, Clone Explosion and DFG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
And your burst that you speak of.....is after you level Deceive.....when you're 18 and have lichbane and deathcap, sure your burst is very, very similar to a mid game AD Shaco.
Look again at the link... there is no lichebane in any of the proof. Sorry but your Deceive as AD Shaco can't be factored in. Because AP Shaco gets just as high crits.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1443904

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
I am not one to make this thread and EPeen contest, but do not discredit my posts with your ignorant comments about my experience.

BTW, your links are hardly relevant. They only list SR data.

You only have 150 Dominion wins.

If you're going to call me out on something like experience, you should at least make sure your's trumps mine first.
Tell me when lolstatistics.com shows that you have 350 wins and of those wins 66 of them are in Co-Op vs Bots. That leaves you 282 unrank normal games when you have out of your own admittance of 400 unranked games and 200 draft games played. So (400+200) - 282 = means you have +310~ loses...

Why should I take you seriously on your tear list with this information?

What is worse is you say you know Shaco better when your recent game info clearly shows you don't play him. I at least play him every game if possible in Dominion.

I would actually say you play GP more than anyone in Dominion.

Sorry Noitcurtsed your Tier list is just bad.


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Blackfire447

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Way too many champs in tier 2, and most of them perform solid, but do nothing other champs can't do. Examples include Cait, Rumble, Taric, Trundle, and Renekton

Also, Skarner is designed for dominion, and excels at it, easily tier 1.

And tier 4 seems empty? Mundo, Morde and Vlad can easily go there.


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Stimuz

Senior Member

12-01-2011

First tier list with Janna in tier 1. I agree with that.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi21 View Post
No. Because you need to spread them out. What is worse is those Tier lists that are accepted are limited in champs. One of the most well known like this is Elementz. So do yourself a favor and be taken seriously because right now your Tier list doesn't look it.
Sorry. My tier is my own. If you would like to be Elementz 2.0, please feel free to practice hard, try out for CLG, and post your own tier list.

Quote:
No it, leaves AP Shaco with... Deceive, JitBs, Shiv, Clone Explosion and DFG.
1) Deceive
You level it last. 18 is a loooong way away.

2) JiBs
Just got nerfed. How do you use them? Cause they are minimally effective as an attack method at best.

3) Shiv
Decent burst....mid to late game. You level it second? (It's what I did). It hits five at 13, around 9 minutes? Some games are long gone by then. You got a 13s, 200+AP damage Shiv at this point. Means you better either have a lot of CDR, AP, or preferably both. AKA late game.

4) Clone Explosion
People get hit by this?

5) DFG
Its solid. As most item activates are.

Quote:
Tell me when lolstatistics.com shows that you have 350 wins and of those wins 66 of them are in Co-Op vs Bots. That leaves you 282 unrank normal games when you have out of your own admittance of 400 unranked games and 200 draft games played. So (400+200) - 282 = means you have +310~ loses...

Why should I take you seriously on your tear list with this information?

What is worse is you say you know Shaco better when your recent game info clearly shows you don't play him. I at least play him every game if possible in Dominion.

I would actually say you play GP more than anyone in Dominion.

Sorry Noitcurtsed your Tier list is just bad.
Please stop.

I haven't played Co-Op vs AI since I was L10.....

You are using incorrect information, I say for the second time. This is SR data.

If you really want to dazzle this forum with your advanced maths, you can search and find the correct data.

And out of my 600 dominion games, the last 6 were with GP. Yea, I sure do play him a lot. /cough /remake /justboughthim

I played a AD Shaco game for you to show you. Haven't played him in a while so I was rusty. You can look. Oh, and my top crit was 695, about 100 higher than yours. And that was with only Boots of Mob, Brutalizer, and I.E, gotten much earlier and a much lower level of usefulness (You level Deceive first as AD Shaco) than your level 17 shaco that level's Deceive last.

This is not the reason they are in different tiers. Just please, do not compare AD and AP Shaco burst. They are similar, but AD blooms much, much earlier.

And for the record, I was an avid AP Shaco before the nerf. AD is clearly superior post JitB nerf.


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Gene Hikaze

Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
1) Have you seen her ultimate used correctly before?

2) So you name two of the fastest champions in the game as your case to why she's not fast? She's much faster than most, that is good enough.

3) Most players don't use it right? That's a player problem, not a reason to claim balance.



So when Gunblade stacking Akali was OP, it did not matter because of one build? And boy, because people at low ELO don't build him correctly and die instantly....that MUST mean he is completely balanced.

He doesn't do too much damage, he doesn't have too much mobility, CC, or elusiveness. His kit is too powerful on Dominion. This makes him God tier. His combination of map awareness, 1v1 ability, 1v2 ability, CC, elusiveness, defending points with boxes, jungle control, ganks, burst damage, and much more makes him god tier.

You arguing against this just shows you have not seen his true power yet.
Alright so let me get this straight... elusiveness and the semi-useless boxes make him OP?

And my elo is above average and I still don't see very many good Shacos because his HP is just too low. Most times you just see Shacos picking on the teams low HP champs which is fine and all but that doesn't make him God tier...

With your arguments champs like Eve, Twitch or Teemo would also be God tier... which just doesn't make any sense. They are good picks over all but their speed and elusiveness doesn't make up for their low HP levels... squishy is squishy (unless you build warmogs... or two...)

Tier lists need to be based off of true champion ability and impartial to how you've seen people play with the said champ. Just because the people you play with don't know how to counter him doesn't make him OP.

Statically speaking Tier lists should be based off a champions over all performance and have nothing to do with your own experience in game against them. However the latter reason is why champions like Akali are STILL banned almost every game. You constantly see GP , Kass, Ramus and Morgana follow suit. Then you either see Trynd, Shaco, Panth, Xin, Karthus and Jax in the next set.

Are they most dangerous champs over all as carries and supports? Maybe, maybe not... but none of them are so OP that they deserve a "God Tier" rating besides Rammus. If people learned to counter pick and counter build (the tab button is your best friend for this...), not set up their squishy champs against carries and make sure to keep an eye on the map (HOLT **** I CAN SEE THEM CROSSING MID!!! WHO KNEW!!!) then the game is for the most part VERY BALLANCED. For the most part these Tier lists end up being "who I hate to play against" lists. Which make them instant fodder for seasoned players.

I think instead of Tier Lists there should be “Ban Lists” suggestions as to who to ban and why... Tiers are retarded... hate to tell you but I can kill Juggernaut with Servbot... happens...

And as for the Poppy comment and her Ulti... One skill... does NOT... make a champion... GOD TIER... nuff said...


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Firewind View Post
Alright so let me get this straight... elusiveness and the semi-useless boxes make him OP?
No. His burst, dps, elusiveness, confusion he bring to combat (ultimate), map control, CC, ganking, defense on points with boxes, combat initiation with boxes, among other things make him good.

See my second to last game. I can show you the replay. I got three triple kills. And we won before AD Shaco becomes even better. (Late Game) As all AD carries are amazing late game. Oh, and I was rusty. I've mostly been playing Ez, Ali, Blitz, GP, and several others more recently.

Quote:
And my elo is above average and I still don't see very many good Shacos because his HP is just too low. Most times you just see Shacos picking on the teams low HP champs which is fine and all but that doesn't make him God tier...

However the latter reason is why champions like Akali are STILL banned almost every game. You constantly see GP , Kass, Ramus and Morgana follow suit. Then you either see Trynd, Shaco, Panth, Xin, Karthus and Jax in the next set.
I've been seeing this as well. I honestly think its because slowly, or already for that matter, people in higher normal ELO brackets are not banning the Akali or Jax, and instead banning Alistar and Kassadin.

I don't ban Akali anymore honestly. If I see her, I pick Alistar or Blitzcrank, and make a Negatron my second item. Simple.

Quote:
Are they most dangerous champs over all as carries and supports? Maybe, maybe not... but none of them are so OP that they deserve a "God Tier" rating besides Rammus. If people learned to counter pick and counter build (the tab button is your best friend for this...), not set up their squishy champs against carries and make sure to keep an eye on the map (HOLT **** I CAN SEE THEM CROSSING MID!!! WHO KNEW!!!) then the game is for the most part VERY BALLANCED. For the most part these Tier lists end up being "who I hate to play against" lists. Which make them instant fodder for seasoned players.
Dominion is VERY balanced. This I believe. This is why I only have 4 tiers. Because I feel there are only that many. And the descriptions are very important. THEY ARE ALL VIABLE.


Quote:
And as for the Poppy comment and her Ulti... One skill... does NOT... make a champion... GOD TIER... nuff said...
Hmm.

Ok.

I will respond by saying this.

Alistar, Amumu, Annie, Ashe, Gangplank, Garen, Kassadin, Pantheon, POPPY, Shen, Skarner, Tryndamere, Twisted Fate, Zilean


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

12-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfire447 View Post
Way too many champs in tier 2, and most of them perform solid, but do nothing other champs can't do. Examples include Cait, Rumble, Taric, Trundle, and Renekton.
I'll take them one at a time.
1) Cait
Her ultimate is looong range. This gives her the ability to be returning from death and stopping a point assault, helping a team fight, or a gank. She can also do this while defending points with her traps. This gives her the ability to siege a point while farming. And as an ad carry, that is a useful quality to have.

2) Rumble
When built tanky AP, usually Ralai's or such, he is very strong at pushing lanes and against squishy champions. That Frozen Heart Ryze dominating your ranks? Even he cannot escape an ultimate and several harpoons. Whether bot or top, as long as Rumble is not the only tank, he can succeed.

3)Taric
Taric is interesting, but often misunderstood. He really excels top as a tanky/ap support. He protects your ad while bursting anything and provides buffs and heals. He is similar to Alistar, but more support than CC oriented.

4) Trundle
As they say. No one can catch Trundle.
s.s.o.t.p.

5)Renekton
Strong tanky dps. His very similar to Riven, but more tanky rather than bursty. His stun and double dash for movement. He is just a strong pick with damage, tankiness, etc.

I actually just had a Renekton (random teammate in me and my friends duo que) go 12/4/13. I know he got at least one triple kill alone at top. I can send you the lolreplay if you want .

Quote:
Also, Skarner is designed for dominion, and excels at it, easily tier 1.
I honestly can see this.

Moved up.

He should have been tier 1.

Quote:
And tier 4 seems empty? Mundo, Morde and Vlad can easily go there.
You'd be surprised. I'll play a game as Mord. I'm decent with him. Rusty though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stimuz View Post
First tier list with Janna in tier 1. I agree with that.
I've played her too. I know trust me. But shhhhh....I don't think they know yet.