Jungle updates inbound; see update here!

First Riot Post
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Morello

Lead Designer

11-29-2011
1 of 59 Riot Posts

Hey folks,

After letting the jungle settle for a day and not only reading the feedback on the forums, but watching streamers, discussing with high-level players, and running some additional internal testing and mathcraft, we will be making changes to the jungle, likely tomorrow.

What will be the scope of these changes, and what are we trying to fix?

* XP Rate: This isn't as smoothed out as we'd liked (or was intended) and has been the most noticeable problem in the new jungle. While we do think this is not as drastically far off as some believe, it is lower than intended. We'll likely make updates here, especially relating to small camps.

* Penalty of missed ganks: While we do like this tradeoff, we don't like the tradeoff ratio here, something you guys have also felt pretty substantially. Changes made will effect this for the better, whether in increased reward or reduced resource loss.

* Gold Rate: Jungler gold is slightly lower than needed, and this is also related to small camp gold. We will be more careful here as to not make counter-jungling worse (since it revolves largely on stealing the big monsters out of camps), but will be evaluating this.

Classick, Guinsoo and I will be doing some final proposals and mathcraft in the morning, in hopes to release it in a hotfix. I'll try to provide status updates as we get more information. Details to come.

EDIT: This update is going into testing now. Based on the results, I'll share details. Timeframe is moved to most likely tomorrow (Thursday) to ensure accuracy. I'll continue to update this thread.

EDIT 2: We've been testing this evening with good results. Stay tuned for final details either later tonight or tomorrow afternoon.

EDIT 3: I do want to set appropriate expectations - XP will not be the same as pre-patch (outlevelling/easily keeping up with solo's). Our target is between solo's and duos for most the game, with you falling behind to duo if getting owned and pulling ahead if you snowball heavily. Junglers should have a big impact on the game, but not run the game like they were pre-patch. There's a happy medium here we're looking to get to.

EDIT 4: Testing has gone well on the mechanics side, but there are some number tweaks we want to do first. This means tomorrow is now the target. Wanna do this thing right!

EDIT 5: We're working with a "banking" system that has the big mobs in jungle camps build XP and gold rewards over time after being there for a bit (currently, one minute). This caps out after a certain amount of time as well, and while farming heavily is greater than waiting for the bank to build, the bank lessens the need to constantly farm to keep up.

Why this system?

* It rewards ganks and is a bit less punishing on gank attempts that don't result in kills for the jungler. After a gank attempt, the jungler can clear the jungle which has scaled a little bit while they were ganking.

* Smart counter-junglers can watch enemy gank patterns, then kill the big monster to steal the bank that's built and reset it. This adds additional value to counter-jungling in the new jungle on the efficiency side. This will encourage more jungler conflict as well as add tons of opportunities for great counter-junglers to pull ahead.

* It allows junglers to farm and catch up a little better if they fall behind early (Of course, enemies can continue to disrupt this and push the advantage as needed), but the option is there, which creates new strategic options for coming back.

There's a few other changes too, but this is the mechanics-level one we're testing right now. While I encourage feedback, I'm excited to see people try this out (if it continues testing well).



EDIT 6: Apologies, but the build does have a technical issue we can't get out today. Will update with new ETA on tech fix for this - thanks for your patience. Updating constantly has this downside - possible changes to the plan you may be excited about. Hold tight folks.

EDIT 7: Release team is going to try for tomorrow (Saturday), the issues are known and that's the current estimate. I'll poke around over tonight and the weekend if anything changes. Thanks again folks.

EDIT 8: Release and the NOC are investigating some stability issues in this. Waiting for additional info.

EDIT 9: Hotfixed is deployed. Will update when it's live.

EDIT 10: Hotfix is live. As in, live live. As in, go play in your shiny new jungle.


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Ray2Saucy

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Senior Member

11-29-2011

suck my d nerf master morello. you need to be brought to justice and permabanned by the tribunal


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GeneralGenerous

Senior Member

11-29-2011

So we can look forward to THREE DAYS of Oceanic/Aus downtime? Or for me, after my EST overnight shift.

Awesome.


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High Rune

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Senior Member

11-29-2011

Finally you guys realize there was a problem with the jungle.


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A shadowy figure

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Senior Member

11-29-2011

GJ Morello finally noticing.


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Lord Gildarts

Senior Member

11-29-2011

This will shutup all the ragers about the jungle now.


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Beasthandle

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Senior Member

11-29-2011

Thank god


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Sherlock

Member

11-29-2011

Glad to hear that you're fixing this new jungle rather than reverting to the old one. The original concept sounded really cool.


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Injineered

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Senior Member

11-29-2011

We all knew this was coming, +1 for actually listening.


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LiftsLikeGaston

Senior Member

11-29-2011

Easiest thing is to just revert it. That way you don't have to spend time fixing something that wasn't even broken to begin with.