Dominion Major changes in the works: info inside!

First Riot Post
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Ahlen

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Senior Member

10-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta View Post
This is what I mostly see with comebacks:

"We got three points and the first five kills. Clearly, we have snowballed out of control and can run around the map ganking, not defending our points."

"Oh noes, we are dying. Clearly, it's Riot's fault for not making this like Summoner's Rift. OMFG, Riot, this mode sucks! If we do well for the first three minutes, we should win for a 20-minute long victory party against the noobs. If I can't teabag an enemy team for 15 minutes, I hate this mode."

And you are going to cater to these people, Riot?


Sure, great idea.
This is what I see with comebacks:

"We got three points and the first five kills, now we're holding these three and have a 350 to 100 lead against the other team. Oh suddenly they're respawning in under 5 seconds and zerging top into oblivion. Oh, the score is now 50-80."

Losing team should not be getting handjobs for losing, and that's what is happening right now.


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Wrajax

Senior Member

10-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahlen View Post
This is what I see with comebacks:

"We got three points and the first five kills, now we're holding these three and have a 350 to 100 lead against the other team. Oh suddenly they're respawning in under 5 seconds and zerging top into oblivion. Oh, the score is now 50-80."

Losing team should not be getting handjobs for losing, and that's what is happening right now.
Yup people are respawning in 5 seconds. Uh-huh.


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rumples

Senior Member

10-28-2011

considering champion balance is based completely around the snowball/farming rates of SR I don't see how you can do this without making it a round SR. What happened to item additions/removal as a way to control it?


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Ahlen

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Senior Member

10-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrajax View Post
Yup people are respawning in 5 seconds. Uh-huh.

I've actually seen people with 1 second respawns on Dominion. 5 seconds is me being generous.


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FDru

Senior Member

10-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahlen View Post
I've actually seen people with 1 second respawns on Dominion. 5 seconds is me being generous.
Uh, no, you have not. Sorry.

Done paying attention to anything you say now.


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Detrium

Member

10-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahlen View Post
I've actually seen people with 1 second respawns on Dominion. 5 seconds is me being generous.
Default re-spawn time is 26 sec.
minus 4 sec for loosing really badly
minus 10 sec if you jump in a teammate respawn window

MINIMUM respawn time: 12 sec

May be subject to +/- 2sec depending on recent patch updates

Source: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1392045


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Yuan Shikai

Senior Member

10-28-2011

I would like to see the comeback-mechanics toned down (although I would greatly dislike it being made possible by draining enxus health beyond 100 health through minion kills, I would rather see it being achievable through caps)

But snowballing I'd definitely despise in dom even if it just happens in every 20th game or so, NOT being able to snowball is one of the things i find so appealing in dominion.


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Ikruti

Senior Member

10-28-2011

While the minimum is technically 12 seconds according to the mechanics Brackhar posted, supposedly there is a bug with Yorrick's ult that will basically let whomever it was on in roughly 1 second. Though that is a bug and should not in any way, shape or form be held against the game mode itself.

I find this thread a bit funny in that for a very long time we were told that we simply were too inexperienced with Dominion to make any sort of call on the balance and meta game of Dominion. Time has passed and it's still very clear that most teams are not grasping the tri-fold nature of the game, with it's early, mid and late game each requiring a different strategy. So Riot was constantly telling us that we just hadn't found the right way to play Dominion, and it's still pretty obvious most haven't really grasped what's going on and Riot is going to make changes to accommodate those people...what's different now?


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Duskofdead

Senior Member

10-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Hey folks,

With Dominion having been out for awhile, and people now getting pretty used to it, we've had a chance to see how it's played out with thousands and thousands of players. We're happy with a lot of aspects with Dominion, but we think we can do some pretty major work to make significant improvements as well.

Our diagnosis currently is that there are three major hinderences that make Dominion less fun or interesting than it could be. First off;

* Players don't get enough "moments of glory", and don't easily see how their success can effect the game.

Progression and personal success are hallmarks of MOBA in general. In our effort to make a balanced experience strategically, we really lowered the ability for that one in twenty matches players get to experience "running away with the game" and feel like they achieved epic status. We feel this is creating some disconnect between the high highs classic can provide, and the more constant but metered pace of Dominion. We will be focusing systems that allow more (gold, specifically) power differential between players.

Next up;

* Comeback mechanics remove interesting team-level decision-making.

Our internal testing created some situations we felt this was mandatory. In practice, we think either an extremely toned-down version of this system or a removal of these systems needs to take place. This means games will be more representative of a team's skill, but you'll also experience more blow-out games. Our assertion is, generally, you can't achieve a decisive victory if you can't have extreme losses either, and that's needed to make a more memorable and deep experience.

Finally;

* A few champions are way too good on Dominion

This is actually the most surface-level thing, and is fixed when we adjust with the other aforementioned systems. To summarize, this is caused by the certainty of progression, where hyper-scaling champions can reach a late game, farmed state with certainty. Addressing that will address most of the specific egregious champion issues.

Dominion is something we think is really fun, and are proud to have put out, and that's all the more reason for us to ensure it receives continued support and major changes where needed. We feel OK being very disruptive to Dominion in the pre-season phase, and will likely be more conservative when Ranked is turned on. This is our (developers and players!) best opportunity to improve Dominion on some fundamental levels, and we're not going to miss it.

- Morello
With regard to the final part about problem champs, I think if you address this issue by simply slowing down how much gold people get or how fast global xp gains are that won't fix the issue at all. Level 3 Irelia vs. Level 3 Ashe is just as bad as Level 12 Irelia vs. Level 12 Ashe.

If you nerf gold and xp gains to calm down "snowball late game champs", you're just going to make champs who rely on levels and items to do anything that much more worthless in this mode. There's already a pretty big list of those champs.

Sometimes the problem is with the champions themselves. I don't think the fact that some champs are overpowered if allowed equal farm in SR is balanced, I just think their OP status is easier to hide or explain away or (as happens on this forum) lecture people to work around it by denying them farm or taking great pains to shut this champion down early. Dominion isn't imbalancing champs because it gives everyone xp and gold, it's showing who is imbalanced in a situation where resources are equal.


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Morello

Lead Designer

10-28-2011
5 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta View Post
This is what I mostly see with comebacks:

"We got three points and the first five kills. Clearly, we have snowballed out of control and can run around the map ganking, not defending our points."

"Oh noes, we are dying. Clearly, it's Riot's fault for not making this like Summoner's Rift. OMFG, Riot, this mode sucks! If we do well for the first three minutes, we should win for a 20-minute long victory party against the noobs. If I can't teabag an enemy team for 15 minutes, I hate this mode."

And you are going to cater to these people, Riot?


Sure, great idea.
The current comeback mechanics are more heavy-handed and forced than just allowing them - the nature of the scoring system always will allow for comebacks. We're not going to make the power differential similar to SR, but more in that direction. It's not a binary "all snowballs" or "no power differential." This is a knob to turn that we'll be messing with.

Again, I'll note the "these other people, who clearly are dumb, and not me" talk that is commonly associated with concerns is not a great debate presentation.