Issue with how points are earned/lost

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Grand Xerxes

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Senior Member

09-24-2011

I like the way it is setup. As someone pointed out above, turtling after a certain point would make the game stale I think. It is also designed this way to make epic comebacks possible. Down 350 - 20? No matter just control more points than they do for the rest of the game and you can win. I like the chance to always comeback in this mode no matter how far behind you are. In most scenarios the team down that much can't comeback, but the possibility makes this mode great.


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gzboli

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Senior Member

09-24-2011

Think about this a little and you'll realize the systems are nearly identical, but Dominion is superior when considering semantics.

In both cases (Dominion and AB style), the team who held more capture points for a longer amount of time wins. Math, it works. Holding 3 of 5 points for a long time is actually a risky strategy. If they force a comeback and hold 4 points for even a short time it will be much stronger than the 3/5 hold.

However, in AB-style, you know before the points finish who has won. The game has a period of time which is literally worthless. In Dominion, every second up until the end has potential.


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karuuv View Post
"The strongest team should win, not the one that can get lucky for the last 2 minutes and win."

if they had to be "lucky" for 2 minutes, then that means your nexus had 120 Nexus HP left over - unless they take MORE than just 3 points. In either case, they didn't win because they were "Lucky."
120HP on the winning teams nexus is a decently close game.

They won, because, despite not being as good at racking up kills, they out-did you in strategy and team work.
I can't remember the final score, but I know they had less than 10 points on their nexus, and we had over 100 when they took over 3+ nodes for the rest of the game.

All I can say is, wait until it happens to you, when you're scratching your head at the end of the game saying, "How did we lose?"

Then look at everyone on the other team that had more deaths than kills, and everyone on your team that had more kills than deaths. Sure, it sounds good on paper, gotta make sure everyone has a chance to win. Sorry, I'm not a sore loser, I'll tip my hat to a better team, but this gameplay does not show who the better team was.


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Xerxes View Post
It is also designed this way to make epic comebacks possible. Down 350 - 20? No matter just control more points than they do for the rest of the game and you can win.
That's not an epic comeback. An epic comeback would be being down 350-20, and then 5-capping to win the game. Again, sorry, but these so-called comebacks will be far too common to be called "epic" by any means.


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Dasmutilizar

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09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcup View Post
I can't remember the final score, but I know they had less than 10 points on their nexus, and we had over 100 when they took over 3+ nodes for the rest of the game.

All I can say is, wait until it happens to you, when you're scratching your head at the end of the game saying, "How did we lose?"

Then look at everyone on the other team that had more deaths than kills, and everyone on your team that had more kills than deaths. Sure, it sounds good on paper, gotta make sure everyone has a chance to win. Sorry, I'm not a sore loser, I'll tip my hat to a better team, but this gameplay does not show who the better team was.
>still talking about kdr.

It does not freaking matter people. you can win with everyone on your team having 30 deaths, if they are more strategic then you they will win. I don't care if you have 100 kills, if they hold more points they win. Deal with it, or go back to SR


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Nideak

Senior Member

09-24-2011

While I do like the whole thing where you can comeback at any time of the game, but I dislike how you are beating a bad team to only have them come back with some bull MS build with maybe a bloodthirster and completely rape you. Take for example I was playing Jax, I was I think 7/0 for the first 12 minutes of the game. I have my dodge boots, Rageblade, PD, and my entropy (that +70 damage one with the 30% active slow and 80 true damage) and cait was doing badly until she got like 2 PD, Berserker's, a BT, and I think a Last whisper. By this time I decided to get a Thornmail (I already had 3k health and was getting owned by a AS Sion WITH NO DAMAGE ITEMS). Even with the Thornmail I was still getting raped by the cait (the sion I could 1v1, but it would still put me low)

The point is, the players can be god awful, but still win due to broken items and turtling.


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Caidos

Senior Member

09-24-2011

Clearly there is nothing we can say to convince you otherwise.


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Karuuv

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09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcup View Post
I can't remember the final score, but I know they had less than 10 points on their nexus, and we had over 100 when they took over 3+ nodes for the rest of the game.

All I can say is, wait until it happens to you, when you're scratching your head at the end of the game saying, "How did we lose?"

Then look at everyone on the other team that had more deaths than kills, and everyone on your team that had more kills than deaths. Sure, it sounds good on paper, gotta make sure everyone has a chance to win. Sorry, I'm not a sore loser, I'll tip my hat to a better team, but this gameplay does not show who the better team was.
Again, 100 point lead is *not* that much, that's a close game. Every capture point over the enemy team you have is 1 point HP drain a second, so 100 points is at most 100 seconds of life when the enemy team has an advantage.
I'd say about a 200 point lead is the breaking limit between "Close game" and "Somewhat Noticeable Lead"

Also: It's happened to me on both sides. I'd be amazed to find someone it DIDN'T happen to.
When I was on the losing team, it was because we were legitimately outplayed and didn't react well enough to whatever strategy they had mustered, and they DESERVED that win. It was not luck, it was darn good tactics.

When we made a comeback, it was because we found a way to outdo THEIR strategy, and THEY could not cope with our own tactics. We deserved to win in those cases, as we outplayed them.

There are also champions that simply do better later on in the game, and those that degrade quickly towards the ending. You may have had a GREAT early game team comp (Which would, incidentally, be likely to give you guys a VERY impressive KDA over your enemies) but have lackluster champions for late/end game.

Furthermore, a death in Dominion doesn't mean you're bad, or even that you made a mistake. This game mode has PLENTY of times when dying is *worth it* for reasons beyond "because I said so in chat"
If you die to interrupt a critical point capture long enough for your team to arrive and take it back so you don't lose a SINGLE Nexus health, your death was most notably worth it.
As such, it is easy to win a game while being negative. It's easy to go negative and have the best score out of either team.


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Perilya

Senior Member

09-24-2011

I played a game where we completely dominated the early stage and got the opposition to 2 points left while we still had almost 200. We continued to capture points and kill the enemy but however they did manage to hold three (never the same three for long) for the last part of the game and won. They also managed to pick up a couple of late quests since my team did not seem to understand that aspect of the game.

They had two scavengers, an Eve and a Rammus, who kept snatching points at the last moment.

Oddly all members of my team had scores above all members of the winning team so that might need a little tweaking.


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StandAloneX

Senior Member

09-24-2011

I think it's pretty easy to under stand and I think it's fair. Whoever hold the most points the longest wins.


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