Experiment: Design a Magic Penetration Item

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Wana

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Member

09-25-2009

Corrupt Crucifix
LORE: A miniature voodoo doll of the famous magician "Guinsoo" can be found pinned to this cross.
Recipe: Long Sword (415) + Amplifying Tome (435) + Recipe (700) = 1550
Stats: +16 damage, +24 AP
Passive: Every attack or spell will reduce the target's armor and magic resistance by 3 for 12 seconds. Stacks 10 times.

Corrupt Crucifix builds into:

Wraith Jar
LORE: Evil souls residing in this ceramic pot are just waiting to pounce at you.
Recipe: Corrupt Crucifix (1450) + Last Whisper (2215) = 3665
Stats: +40 damage, +30 AP
Unique Passive: Every attack or spell sends out a ghost. This ghost bounces 3 times, reducing 3% of an affected target's armor and magic resistance for 12 seconds. Stacks 10 times.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyan View Post
I meant no offense by my post, yet you respond with childish insults. The item you're suggesting to change has an already decent, of not great, aura.
There's no need to change an already decent item.
Correction, you were trying to be a smart ass and failed. Even a change to an existing item counts as a new item when its stats / components are altered. The Abyssal Scepter is currently one of the weaker items in the game when its magic pen value for its price is compared to those of armour pen.


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Guinsoo

Game Designer

09-25-2009
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Actually Chronicle, I did specifically say we're looking for a new item. Abyssal Scepter has a great role; it might be a hair underpowered right now but certainly not to the point of needing to remake it.

To everyone - please focus on new items please.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Actually Chronicle, I did specifically say we're looking for a new item. Abyssal Scepter has a great role; it might be a hair underpowered right now but certainly not to the point of needing to remake it.
Fair enough. I just dont like suggesting what already exists (in this case something with a magic pen aura, stackable or otherwise). In that case here is my alternate contribution.



Chalice of Harmony (890) + Wits End (2150) + Scroll (400)

*Insert name here*

80 Magic Resistance
45% Attackspeed
10 mana per 5 sec

UNIQUE Passive - Your physical attacks steal 50 mana from your target and increases your magic pen by an amount equal to 2% of your current mana.


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Truhls

Senior Member

09-25-2009

Regrowth Pendant (475)
Meki Pendant (390)
Into
Philoiphers Stone (1115)

Long Sword (415)
Dorans Ring (435)

Into

(275)

Over all = 2240

Blade of Discrepancy
+140 health
+20 Attack Damage
+20 Ability Power
+20 Mana/5
+28 Health/5
Unique: + 15 % Magic Penatration. Gains 5 gold every 10.


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CF Furyan

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Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronicleX View Post
Fair enough. I just dont like suggesting what already exists (in this case something with a magic pen aura, stackable or otherwise). In that case here is my alternate contribution.



Chalice of Harmony (890) + Wits End (2150) + Scroll (400)

*Insert name here*

80 Magic Resistance
45% Attackspeed
10 mana per 5 sec

UNIQUE Passive - Your physical attacks steal 50 mana from your target and increases your magic pen by an amount equal to 2% of your current mana.
I actually like that idea.


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JayceJa

Member

09-25-2009

Item data taken from the full item list thread in case something is wrong:

Amplifying tome
20 AP
435 gold
+
Rejuvenation Bead x2
10 HP / 5 sec each
250 gold each
+
recipe for "warlock's monocle"
565 gold
=
Warlock's monocle (1500 g)
35 AP
25 Hp/5 seconds
25 Magic penetration

Warlock's Monocle can upgrade:

Warlock's Monocle 1500 gold
+
Glacial Shroud (1675 g)
Sage's Ring (975 g) + Cloth armor (300 g) + 400 g
500 Mana
40 Armor
UNIQUE Passive: Reduces ability cooldowns by 20%.
+
JayceJa's Spyglass recipe(had to name it after myself)
1200 gold
=
JaceJa's Spyglass (4375 g)
500 mana
50 armor
45 AP
35 Hp/5 seconds
35 Spell penetration
UNIQUE Passive: Reduces ability cooldowns by 20%. Upon Casting a spell, your next spell will ignore 100% of magic resistance if single-targeted, or ignore 50% of magic resistance if multi-targeted.

Buff lasts for up to 10 seconds, no internal cooldown, casting with the buff does not add the buff for the next cast.

The Monocle provides Hp regen for early game, and a use for the beads, while a reasonably cheap way to get a pretty good amount of spell penetration early.
The Spyglass then is is a little bit of everything for a caster item, or good for tanks with spells, spell penetration, Ap, cooldown reduction and mana for casting spells, then armor and health regen for tanking and survivability, however while it gives a lot of everything, everything it gives is weaker than specialized items, so it would make a better complimentary item to a build for later in the game.

The unique effect inquires a more strategic use of spells, casting your weaker spells to allow stronger spells to hit for more, or nuking a less squishy person to gain the buff to nuke the tank for the most overall damage.


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Guess

Senior Member

09-25-2009

I would think if you want to include Magic Penetration as one of the stats (more so than it's current place as next to non existent), the best way would be to begin with a lower tier item that gives magic pen.
If you're looking for a larger tier item, this goes right along with it, as the components are often as import as the final item.

..................................<Nameless High Tier Item> (700g)
..................................+60 magic penetration
..................................+50 ability power
..................................+20 mana per 5
..................................-15% ability cooldowns
<Nameless Mid Tier Item>(475g) .....<Low Tier Item>(350g) ......<Fiendish Codex>(420g)
+40 magic penetration......................+ 15 magic penetration....... +40 ability power
+8 mana per 5 .................................................. ......................... +7 mana per 5
.................................................. ................................................-10% ability cooldowns
2x<Low Tier Item>(350g)..<Faerie Charm>(180g)|.....<Meki Pen>(390g)..<Amp tome>(435g)
+15 magic penetration.......+3 mana per 5............| ....+7 Mana per 5.........+20 ability power

The total costs for the items are as followed(The above is not the best way to display the idea, I know.):
Total cost:....... 3650g
Mid Tier cost:... 1355
Low Tier cost:... 350g

Fiendish Codex costs 1245g total.

Overall, it provides a low-tier item useful in early game when magic resistance is still low, so it can be effective in the right spots, and 2 mid-tier items that can last on their own until late game. At which point, can be combined into an item that will hold it's own (at it's cost of course) until the game ends.


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Ribido

Member

09-25-2009

I don't have an item to propose, rather some insight into balance concepts that might help everyone else out. Regardless of how you want to look at, Magic Pen is mearlly a situational increase to DPS. Though it hasn't been stated so I'm not sure if its already like this, I don't think that magic penetration should take a person into negitive resistance for reasons I will list below.

-Magic Pen items are being used to counter thanks with -Magic Resistance Items- not just tanks. This item shouldn't become a stape that everymage uses, by putting so many things like magic pen, mana per 5, high AP, AP stealing etc... you are making an item that every caster will use regardless of if they have tanks

-In regards to resistance falling to negative, by doing this you are again making this item a staple since reducing someone's magic resistance by 20 percent is very near increasing your damage by 20 percent (there are exceptions but we're using simple math). If you are not allowing resistance to fall into the negative then this item only becomes useful as a counter to magic resist, as it should.

-Specifically combining AP and Magic Penn on an item is dangerous as the bonuses are much more powerful than they initially seem. These two attributes synergize perfectly and the costs associated with them should be high as well.


So pretty much what I'm getting across is that going a magic penn route should be a decision to counter a team who is stacking MR, not just a "good for everything item". By going magic Penn you are opting to increase your DPS drastically against a tank, but not versus non tanks. Conversely AP builds should aim to increase your damage to everyone else and be weak to resistance builds.


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TiberiusAudley

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Adjudicator

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribido View Post
I don't think that magic penetration should take a person into negitive resistance for reasons I will list below.
Magic Penetration does NOT work beyond 0 magic resistance.

Calculation Order:

Minus Magic Resistance Debuffs
% Based Magic Penetration
Linear (Flat) Magic Penetration.
If Magic Resistance <= 0, Magic Penetration doesn't take any more effect.

Additionally, if the % based works like Last Whisper (did? Not sure if this was fixed), then if the total resistance is below 0 (reduced by methods listed below), then having the %-based penetration actually reduces your damage instead of increasing it due to the % not accounting for negatives, it takes a % regardless.


With items like Banshee's Veil giving 60 Magic Resist, and champions having an inherent 30, it's likely a 20 point of magic resist will never hit 0 unless you have an Amumu, Evelynn, Lich, Soraka, and spec'ed Exhaust all on the same team with an abyssal sceptre nearby as well

(The only current % Based Magic Penetration is in the form of a Mastery in the Offensive tree.)


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