@Morello: So, let's be honest and mature. What really IS the problem with Irelia?

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AFK for House

Senior Member

09-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalShade View Post
What's up with all this focus on "bad design"? I understand it's important and all, but when a champion is both fun to play AND generally agreed to be balanced, without being particularly annoying to play against, does it really make sense to worry about any apparent issues in their design?
I agree completely swain did not really need his nerfs but we're talking about irelia here


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jjnn

Senior Member

09-17-2011

Quote:
dddd
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Lazris

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Senior Member

09-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arterus View Post
I think Irelia is in a very good place right now. She has survived the multiple nerfs to her base stats and abilities. Her effectiveness at solo top dominance are long past their prime. She can still outlane many champions but she has very strong counters top, characters that are FoTM right now.

Irelia only becomes a problem when she is winning her lane, just like pretty much any other champion. As stated above, she loses her lane quite often now. If Irelia is coming out of her lane losing she will fail just like any other champion.

Her sustain is near non existent until level 6. Many champions force the marginal sustain from hiten style out of the equation. Her utility consists of I can stun you or slow you depending on our health. The only thing she brings to the team are her tankyness and her ability to pick on carries if she is outfarming them.

I find it hilarious that riot says they have learned how to make a fighters kit work without being like Irelias. Lets see what tanky dps riot produced after Irelia:

Trundle - Strong Viable pick

Renekton - Nerfed repeatedly due to his strong kit.

LeeSin - Ridiculously strong kit, one of the best champions in the game. Brings far more to the team than any other tanky dps.

Rumble - Nerfed repeatedly due to his strong kit

Yorick - Released extremely under powered, buffed to extremely strong pick, nerfed slightly afterwards.

Wukong - Completely and utterly worthless champion.

Skarner - Completely and utterly worthless champion.

For some reason every tanky dps minus trundle following Irelia has had their kit nerfed or has been released completely broken and worthless.

You sure have learned a lot from Irelia haven't you. Maybe you should rethink your stance on her.
Jarvan? and trundle is a strong viable pick now? Interesting. I didn't know people played him, last I saw a trundle was at the season 1 finals and he lost 0/3 or w/e from TSM


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Enyalus

Senior Member

09-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorsz View Post
So you have stop her early game or lose? That seems like a pretty OP champion to me, you dont "have" to stop 99% of other champions early game or you lose, so why is it that way with irelia?
....If you shut down any assassin character early they become useless. LeBlanc, Akali, Nocturne, etc. It's the same for almost all other carries, as well. Tryndamere, Olaf. What are you talking about?


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REDDROCKET

Member

09-17-2011

There is no problem with Irelia. Leave her alone. This company is going to perpetuate a cycle of nerfs until the first champion that was nerfed is now OP because they ran the others into the ground, then back to step 1. Might as well go play some PvE game or hello kitty island adventure at this rate.

Yes, slippery slope arguement!!!


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GG Crono

Senior Member

09-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Honestly, I think we could get rid of his health costs and, after the sticker shock of "it's less than it was," it'll be much closer to good.
This would be awesome.


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xkawazux

Senior Member

09-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMan7 View Post
She has heavy physical and true damage + magic damage (if they go wit's end or bloodrazor). It's hard to defend against considering she can't be cc'd long.
And she does it while building fairly tanky.


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Morello

Lead Designer

09-17-2011
11 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Split4ss View Post
I think you didn't learn too much then or you leanred pretty slowly, because there is another main offender still around with such ridiculous powerlevel and utility overload that it isn't even funny.


*******http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110316003755/leagueoflegends/images/6/65/NocturneSquare.png******** DARRRRRRRRRRKNESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

(You know what i'm talking about)

Characteristics:

- He can build only one offensive item and full defensive items in the other slots and still deal a crapload of damage (55 attack damage steroid, 80 % attack speed steroid on a non-ultimate ability, splash damage every few hits)

- Anti-cc: Spellshield most of the times combined with Banshee's Veil makes this guy pretty obnoxious to fight against

- Sustain although smaller than Irelia's his passive also provides some sustain

- Holy mfing gap closer, the mother of all gap closers tbh.

- Crowd control of his own. 2 Second fear...

Seriously riot, what the hell did you smoke when you designed this abomination of a tanky dps?
Jarvan, Nocturne and Irelia are the three that have some of this pattern. Jarvan has less of it, and has been fixed the most by pushing him closer and closer to the tank role. Nocturne would be more OK if an assassin as intended, but the amount of free stats granted there pushed him into a fighter role, and therein lies the problem (though the shield + fear combination makes counter-play largely non-existent).

Irelia's the prototypical one, with these two using a similar pattern. Since we didn't release many fighters between that (just Renekton, an AD-caster archetype), we hadn't really played with the space again until then - and Irelia's power was really hidden until about then.


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Enyalus

Senior Member

09-17-2011

Nocturne is fine (and by fine I mean strong but not OP), and Jarvan is weak right now. :\ And by weak I mean, comparatively.


EDIT: I'm just not getting referring to something as a problem or implying its a problem when the playerbase doesn't feel that way. Current Jarvan and Nocturne do not break the game in any way, and certainly not like release Vayne or pre-Wriggles proc fix Udyr did.


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VeggieDealer

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Senior Member

09-17-2011

that's ok feel free to nerf irelia. I was maining her but i've got lee sin, akali, nocturne i can play instead. honestly i have no idea why there is even a focus on irelia because there are bigger things out there.

there are older champs that have major farming issues early (ryze, leblanc).

There are OP champs that have way worse of a broken metagame ie Trynd and his lifetime of no death (come on seriously he can die and kayle can ult herself at lvl 16 and trynd can wait around til his ult wares off then kill her then slash away and not even look back).

And what's the deal with nidalee's spear taking half health on one toss and having the range of infinity!?!

But feel free to nerf irelia I'll just play someone else. maybe i'll play trynd but then again I refuse to play OP champs.