Akali... Nice Concept, Flawed Execution (Especially on Summoner's Rift)

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Incineration

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Senior Member

05-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somafera View Post
The typical game where you get 20k gold.
8k gold on one of the best farm/burst classes in the game isn't hard.


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GosuOP

Senior Member

05-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrael View Post
It is my personal opinion that Akali is worthless in a 5v5 fight. She does better in 3v3, but the same problems sill exist.

W - Twilight Shroud

Its a nice idea, but the fact that the enemy can see where you're stealthed just means all they have to do is AoE the area. About the only thing its useful for is preventing 40% of auto attacks and targeted abilities while the Shroud lasts. It is not a viable escape mechanic, and I will publicly laugh in the face of anyone who says otherwise. Its slow is negiligable unless you max it out (and even then, its still pretty bad)

Proposed Fix:

Have it give magic resist instead of armor, and a % miss chance on top of the slow (say 20%). The magic resist will really help make it a viable move (seeing as how its outlined for everyone to see the area in which she's stealthed, which is about as big as a lot of character's AoE abilities), and give it some interesting uses in teamfights (the % miss chance and the small slow effect are nice contributions)

R - Shadow Dance

Well, this move has an interesting place. Its a very nice ability (great for catching people who are running away), and its an ultimate due to the 2 sec internal cooldown (assuming you have an Essence of Shadow to fuel it). The problem isn't as much with the move itself...

As the fact that as I have already established earlier that Twilight Shroud is not a viable escape mechanic (as it currently is), and you can't really use Shadow Dance to escape, either.

She's a melee DPS, which means that she has as much survivability (perhaps a little less) than a ranged DPS, but has to be in melee ranged to do just about anything. What every other melee DPS has is an escape mechanic ( Nidalee's Pounce + Primal Surge, Kat's Shunpo, Jax's Leap Strike, Garen's Whirlwind + Decisive Strike, etc.) But where is Akali's?

That's right SHE DOESN'T HAVE ONE.

And for those people who say 'take Flash, you pansy', you're silly. The most broken summoner spell in the game is not a viable solution for a genuine lack of an ability to get out of a fight without either killing the other person, or dying (especially as with Akali, you're right in the middle of it). There needs to be an actual way for Akali not to have to totally commit to a fight.

Proposed Fix: (with full credit to Somafera for the idea)

What I really like is the ability that, while in Twilight Shroud, for Akali to be able to target the ground with Shadow Dance. For everyone (including me) who doesn't simply want to see another copy of Kat's Shunpo, it'd be a very cool idea. It wouldn't cost her too much, and it wouldn't break the functionality of really anything (along with giving her more synergy between her skills).

The other fix (admittedly, which might be more simple, but I like less) is to simply allow Akali to Shadow Dance to friendly targets (much like Kat's Shunpo). It works for her, and why fix what isn't broken (my opinions on Kat are another matter entirely)

But please, Riot, there's been a ton of threads about this, and a lot of people who genuinely like the character. If we could just get someone from Riot to simply say that they're aware of the problem, and are considering possible fixes. That's all I'm asking, really.

Edit:



Couldn't have said it better myself, and I agree wholeheartedly.
Her Twilight Shroud can be used as an escape mechanism. It just sucks balls compared to the other melee DPS' champions. I barely even notice the reduced movement speed of enemies at all! So I usually just get its level 1, and then max out my other skills from there. Basically, I only use it for its occasional stealth while I'm farming (which is very effective against ranged harassers), and the additional armor. An alternative, I think, is the % miss chance. It would make sense too since the enemies are INSIDE A SMOKE.

As for her ultimate, I agree with your second option. The one where you can target your allies too. The reason why I didn't like your first suggestion is because Akali's Q ability works well with the auto-hit you get from her ulti, rather than teleporting to the ground beside the enemy champion and then attacking (which sucks 'cause she doesn't have Kat's bouncing blade ability, therefore cannot kill running away enemy champions).


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Boundless Spring

Senior Member

05-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maledicte View Post
Alright, I will play a round and make Akali have more 'survivability'
For those of you suggesting that us Akali players don't build her DPS/AP please suggest an alternative survivability build and post it here. I'll play a few rounds and let you know how it goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disolve View Post
Rageblade, Rylai's and Zhonya's is far and away more than enough DPS items on Akali for the times you need survivability.

You know you're going to get crushed if you move in, just wait for your tank to initiate and your ranged DPS to start putting out numbers and Q --> R --> E. If you take damage, throw down your W and gtfo or clean up.

Finish off the medium/low health targets/squishies. If you really have to die for a teamfight to turn out as an ace or a 4 kill, there's nothing wrong with that at all.

What you guys don't get is, you are dps. You aren't the tank. That is inherent in your skills if nothing else. Any champion after a certain ELO level that DOESN'T build survivability items is going to wash and die every time. No you can't just throw a smoke bomb down and gtfo because you will be downed in the duration of one disable. If you can't live even that long how are you going to use all that damage you bought?

O that's right, you can't. It's about balance. And you aren't doing it. Paper thin damage characters are only viable for pub stomping low ELOs. As the higher you get, the more they look for the guy with large blocks on their hp bar and focus them down instantly. So if you are doing the damage only route and being successful I got news for ya... If all those people you are downing in 3 hits because THEY didn't get survival either suddenly all live a long time and nuke your paper thin sorry arse down, maybe you'll see. It is in high, or at least, higher level play for one reason, it works. Here read this: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...69#post1298369

What I'm trying to say is, you won't live long enough, against skilled players on the lookout for people like you, which are basically free food, to contribute to an ace. Instead you'll be contributing to their gold pile because you were silenced/stunned/slowed and focused. While you're less efficient for the cost damage items plink off their survival gear making you ineffectual. The stat you need be concerned with is not your damage, or dps. It is your dmg per effective health. IE How much damage you do is intrinsically tied to how long you live, not just how much damage you do against something that doesn't fight back. Time you live + dps = total usefulness. And if you can't live through one Annie nuke, and she is smart enough to target you, your usefulness = 0.


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Kikhan

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Senior Member

05-17-2010

The only mechanic I think that needs changing is switching the armour to M/R of shroud. Most of the other complaints are due to lack of proper game play with current mechanics. I did not read over ever post just the first couple of pages. I offer strategy for most of the complaints I've read here in my guide.

The main complaint I see; escape mechanisms is one reason I have not liked any of the other stealth characters because it breeds cowardice. If you have to stay and fight then make proper use of the stealth while it is there cause very likely they are pissed at you and want a piece. With the long cd of shroud you have to be sure of your placement and use each fight.


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Xenova

Member

05-17-2010

Funny, i posted akali is bad and is just another melee with no escapes or CC.

Yet i get downvoted in to a lock.

This guy posts the exact same **** and gets upvoted.

GJ LoL community.


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CC Radical

Junior Member

05-17-2010

I'd rather they add a passive for Shadow Dance similar to Yi with his ultimate:

If you kill a champion within 5 seconds of using Shadow Dance you retreat into shadow form (stealthed) for 3 seconds and movement speed is increased by 10% for that duration. This gives you a bit of survivability and rewards you for successfully pulling off a kill instead of punishing you.

So instead of wandering around behind your front line during a team battle waiting for it to finish, you can prioritize enemies with low health. And if you're clever enough to catch and kill them then your R passive will give you a chance to survive and get away before being targeted and CC'ed to death in 2 seconds.

Is this OP?

I don't see why. As many people have meantioned, Akali is supposed to be an assassin which means being able to sneak in un-noticed, killing the target, and then disappearing without a trace. There is no fun in either:

1) Cleaning up after a 4 v 5 for your team. If your team can handle a 4 v 5 where your team comes out on top you are obviously not needed.

2) Rushing in and killing most likely only one champion at best before being mass targeted and dying.

The duration of shadow form wouldn't get you to safety. At best it would stop enemy champions from immediately CCing you to death and maybe get you a third of the way to safety. Enemies could easily catch up and slow/CC you down before you escape.

What it does add however is more strategy. Focus a Ryze at 30% health, burst him down and now you're in stealth. There are 4 angry champions surrounding you. Pop your W to the right of the lane and run off to the left. Watch as the enemy champions chase your phantom to the right.

That's what your W is for.

W screams LOOK I'M HERE <<<<<. W can also be pierced by AOEs, skill shots (both CC and damage), has a delay so most likely you are still targeted and hit while inside, and easily walked around (ie: OMGIT'SYI with R walking around it). Your W may prevent 1 or 2 champions from killing you, but in a team fight you are most likely deeply screwed.

Are you forgetting something? You get 3 charges on your ultimate.


So? You only procure your passive on killing an enemy champion. Unless there are 3 very low health champions grouped together, then you won't be able to procure it 3 times. And if there are 3 low health champions grouped together then they deserve to die. They would die regardes of whether Akali had this passive or not. Same goes if a Yi found them, or a Nunu, or an Ashe, etc.

Why do you say shadow form instead of just saying stealth?


Because shadow form is a clever way of making it different from stealth. Shadow form can't be broken by buying oracles.

Why would shadow form not be detectable using oracles? OP obv.

3 seconds of stealth is lulz. At most you avoid some CC and damage and get a slight head start to GTFO. It is obviously very different to the almost indefinate stealth used by twitch and eve. Otherwise you might as well not have the passive since 400 gold spent by the enemy team easily makes it 5 v 4 for them in their favour again.

Still OP.

About OP as Garen running in and stabbing a giant sword into someone's body and killing them and running out with most of his health intact. Or Karth using his ulti. Or Annie bursting an entire team to kingdom come. Remember, Akali can only burst down one target at a time. You should be as scared of her at low health as Garen or Kath, etc. CC her while she's still bursting someone down if you're scared of her going into stealth.


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Incineration

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Senior Member

05-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjall View Post
What you guys don't get is, you are dps. You aren't the tank.
What I was implying, and what I said clearly had you have read my other posts, is since Akali can put out ample DPS with two or three items you can build her for survivability if you need to.

But tbh I'm happy that people think Akali is ****.


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Maledicte

Senior Member

05-17-2010

I usually build Akali in this order:
Doran's Shield
Merc. Treads
Phage
Guinsoo's Rageblade
Elixir of Fortitude
and then depending on how things are going, either Trinity Force or Frozen Mallet

It works pretty good imo. Dorans gives you a nice HP/armor boost early on. Merc treads is good on any champion especially if the enemy team is stun/magic heavy. And then Phage gives a little more boost to the HP. I've actually almost considered getting Spirit Visage, though I'm not really sure if the CD is really necessary.


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Samus Aran

Senior Member

05-17-2010

Twilight Shroud should reduce any enemy champion's vision to the radius of the shroud while in it, effectively stopping them from just standing in the middle of it while waiting for her to leave. There's absolutely no reason they should be able to see outside of it.


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Surgie

Senior Member

05-17-2010

i dont have a problem w/ akali. i kill their whole team before i get low =]. just run in..spam everything while staying inside ur stealth bomb so they dont focus u. not that hard.

oh and make sure ur teammates r decently intelligent

Edit:

my build is

Mejais
The sword that gives u attack dmg per kill
Dodge boots or Magic Resist boots
Guinsoos
Trinity
Warmogs