Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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TeamWorkTom

Senior Member

07-14-2011

Isnt Tryndamere anti-fun with his ult?


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SteelPillow

Senior Member

07-14-2011

so your ADMITTING to noobifying the game. because all theese "negative mechanics" you're trying to avoid, first off, already exist to a major degree, and second. limit your strategic options. if someone is too dumb to KNOW what a skill does, then they deserve to get owned by it. like the whole idea of knowledge is power is the REASON why that mechanic is good. "derp derp im against a brand, DONT STEP IN THE RED CIRCLE. DURRR"........like if players dont want to learn what a character does, then they will get owned by it. what youve posted, is an excuse to why youve catered to the really REALLY noob "free game" audience, instead of hardcore dota/hon fans, that enjoy a competative game. with a large learning curve. the trick is not to make a HON curve, but still to not do STUPID things like remove the gold cap on killing sprees, and add other mechanics, that give players some stupid sense of accomplishment when they really havnt dont anything to help their team. this is AMAZING to read to get into the minds of the developers, and the fact that you see theese thihngs as negatives, are absolutely stunning.


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Uccisore

Senior Member

07-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AncientSpark View Post
*snicker*. Really? You're bringing up FIGHTING games as an example of "anti-patterns" sucking?

Mogank, you don't get it.

Do you know why fighting games didn't fix their glitches? It's because...
Um, fighting games didn't fix their glitches because on an arcade machine or console, it would involve shipping millions of dollars worth of hardware to customers for free. You don't 'patch' a ****ing SNES cartridge, and arcade games were on ROMS back then too.

That's it, that's the whole reason.


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AncientSpark

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Senior Member

07-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uccisore View Post
Um, fighting games didn't fix their glitches because on an arcade machine or console, it would involve shipping millions of dollars worth of hardware to customers for free. You don't 'patch' a ****ing SNES cartridge, and arcade games were on ROMS back then too.

That's it, that's the whole reason.
Hence the...

"a) It was the era before patching became commonplace or"?

I mean, what did you THINK I meant?


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Ranzera

Senior Member

07-14-2011

Interesting that % health true damage isn't violating the anti fun>fun rule. Tanks cannot do their job/get melted like a squishy. If only you guys still followed this list.

Also Grenade violates skill reliability. It's far too slow to be reliable.


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IronManZ

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Senior Member

07-14-2011

So much bull**** in one post o.O

OMG, Rupture is anti-fun.

You could say the same from Jax's leap-strike combo that deals 800 damage mid-game and insta-kills you. All because he has flat dmg runes and 25 armor penetration. You don't even get to know how much armor your champion gain, except from a meaningless bar that says "Health" when you choose him.

You can never know how much Armor Penetration or Magic Penetration the enemy has. With a glitchy client you never know if the last hit you took was from the enemy Ignite (which is true damage, uncounterable - OMG NOT FUN, lol pathetic) or the ranged minion who was attacking you instead of the first 3 heroes who started attacking the enemy hero.

This is absolute hyprocrisy. Runes were probably made not to enhance gameplay but to promote IP gain (which was horribly reduced) and to force people into buying IP boosts - extra money for the company, the logic is undeniable.

Seriously, for a game that has SO MANY design flaws, talking about fun or not fun is one of the most ridiculous things that can be done.

High learning curve is a completely natural aspect of this genre. Not being able to run when an enemy Bloodthirster uses Rupture on you is not "unfun", it's an aspect of the game. As soon as there's an enemy champion like his you have to be careful not to be hit by his ultimate, or you will take damage.

The counter to taking damage when you walk? Stand still, you take no dmg. NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF DOTA was Rupture taken as an imbalanced or unfun skill too hard for people to understand.

I could write an essay about how much bull**** there's in this post, dear lord it could have hundreds of pages. Want proof of it? You guys have dozens of "skillshots that stun/slow/dealdmg" in your game. They're all pretty much the same, similar dmg, similar ratios, similar mana costs. THIS is atrocious game design, there's no uniqueness or originality in that.

Check the HoN made heroes, they are trully unique from each other and actually have different mechanics both theory-wise and gameplay-wise. The latest one is going to be available tomorrow.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

07-14-2011
248 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx10 View Post
This thread has been commended the Official seal of Awesomeness.
As it greatly needs it, may you, Zileas, enrich humanity's gene pool through procreation.
It is your duty.

Attachment 220788
Thanks, but I'm really busy making games. No time for that.


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Fendral

Senior Member

07-14-2011

The man has his priorities. More women for us (like we could compete against Zileas) and a better game for us. I'm calling this a win-win.


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Pleides

Senior Member

07-14-2011

I agree about the Rupture and "burden of knowledge" thing. It seems to me that this thinking leads Riot to make bland champions. I am not a HoN player, but I've played it several times and they really have a wealth of champions and truly interesting abilities. On one hand you could say this makes the game less accessible because there's more to learn, which is true, but there's no reason to recycle old abilities champion after champion for the sake of making the game accessible. I mean how many champions have a shield ability? How different are Ashe, Caitlyn, or Miss Fortune from one another? Regardless of how much you copy/paste abilities between champions, there are still 75-80 (currently) in the game with no end in sight as far as additions go. New players are REQUIRED to learn them all one way or another, there's simply no way around that.

If there are any Reds reading this, just know that I am not the only person who feels this way. New champions are always great, but think of some original abilities, please! I was very disappointed when I saw the recent cross breed of Amumu and Lux you call Leona.


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Jaëgo

Junior Member

07-14-2011

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