@Morello/Xypherous: Can we get an update on the stealth remake please?

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Veonx

Member

07-13-2011

I cannot wait to see this rework implemented. I believe that it will up the skill level to play with Eve considerably and overall make things much more hectic and enjoyable when trying to gank and roam! No more easy as hell ganking someone who is even slightly over extended. The faster this comes out the better


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Felstag

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Senior Member

07-13-2011

Xypherous, everything you say makes so much sense, I truly love this Idea and can't wait to see it ingame! My buddies and I had a similar idea when we were talking about the eve nerf. :P


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Shoryukenz

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Junior Member

07-13-2011

Xyph or Shur, so what if Eve uses her summoner's spells like flash to get out of range, would that remove her stealth? If I read it correctly an attack would disable her stealth but what about using teleport and flash while in your stealth?


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Burbinator

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Xypherous!


have you thought about making the fade duration dependent on the rank of the skill, along with a few other side benefits? Early game, the fade duration is less important when you're going to be roaming, but late game a shorter fade duration is a lot more useful in teamfights (always being unpredictable where you are).

Also gives some incentive to level the skill ^_^. Of course, if the skill is tied to something else, such as twitch's attack speed steroid, there's already incentive there. But it feels unintuitive for a skill to be gotten at level 1 for one reason, then levelled up for an entirely different reason (rather than greater stealth, in this case greater damage). You might say that sion's stun is similar if going AD, however, ranking it at least decreases the cd. From how you described it, it just feels a bit odd in that both aspects of the skill dont scale with its level very well.

thanks for any response =)


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Kai Allard Laio

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Senior Member

07-13-2011

i like this rework - and more importantly, the effort put into it. Thanks for the update!


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MolotovCaveat

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Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
You hit a button, and now you are untargetable.
Irony is these words coming from a guy with a Vladimir avatar pic.


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swmtrunks

Senior Member

07-13-2011

As a Main eve player before she was gutted, I'm concerned that taking away her scouting ability is too big of a trade off even with a new kit.

Even with a bush check I'm still not convinced. TBH mana was a slight issue with Eve that most would counter by rushing 2x philo stones to keep her roaming, so the prospect of having to bush check for more mana is terrifying.

I really feel that nerfing her scouting is too severe. As that is in my eyes what stealth should be GOOD at for GOOD reason.

My solution under the current outlined plans would be to make it so that the NEW 'Oracle' sight radius that every player has does not work in brush and takes 2 seconds after leaving brush to activate... It makes sense that a champion has reduced vision while in brush anyways. You shouldn't punish players for good play (actively scouting is good play).

Thoughts? Can you at least test this and see how it works out? I personally payed eve for her mobility and scouting ability, so to see these get tossed aside is frustrating.

Keep up the good work.


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Keruze

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
The current stealth system, as it stands right now, is far easier to execute successfully than fail at. Stealth, as a mechanic right now, is pretty much has the highest return for one of the lower skil-intensive mechanics. You hit a button, and now you are untargetable.

The reason why the stealth characters are "hard" to play is that this super easy lower-skill mechanic is tied to a character who is tremendously difficult or has tremendously lowered base statistics in order to balance out their skill to effectiveness curve.

This phenomenon creates a weird dichotomy where you don't get better at stealth characters by getting better at using the stealth mechanic. You get better at stealth characters by getting better at learning how to use artifically lowered statistics for balance.

One of the immediate benefits of the new stealth system was that it was hard to use effectively without practice. That's one of the major takeaways that I've really enjoyed. To get better at Evelynn and Twitch, you can *actually* learn to exploit the vision distances and harass abilities that you have. You need to learn how to leverage stealth/your position well to scout and understand how much power being invisible to minions and circling can give you when side-pushing, etc.

While I don't disagree that players *do* need to learn how to counter certain tactics, the skill cost to implement stealth currently is so much lower than the skill cost to counter stealth. Now, we've had to balance that skill cost by putting stealth on artificially weak characters, but the basics of the mechanics means that skill cost for countering the stealth mechanic will always be much much greater than executing stealth. This, in general, gives a terrible sense of where balance is at, because unless players are all above a certain skill threshold and the binary nature of the system starts to take its toll as before that skill threshold, stealth is amazing. Above that skill threshold, stealth is underpowered and frustrating.

I completely agree that these "gaps" need to exist for players to get better at the game, however, the gap here is *so* wide and the initial starting point for using stealth is *so* low, as a mechanic that it's not serving this purpose very well.
Xypherous, you're smart dude


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3v3ryone

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Senior Member

07-13-2011

so new stealth gives eve & twich immune to normal wards, aka easy gank till they are in "X" range. I think this can be problematic, because stealth is permanent and you can't just spote them on the map anymore, even if you have lot's of wards (or im wrong?).

Can you tell us how strong are new stealth champion in end game? because this new oracle ability won't help when stealth champions will have red buff or/and frozen mallet.

you will be able to see them 1-2 sec before they hit you, but when they hit you it's over, you wont escape, unless you have your own escape mechanism + flash. (i.e kassadin/tristana etc)


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Caladh

Member

07-13-2011

Xypherous

What will happen to the armor/magic resistance reduction on Ravage? Removed or stays?
Aaand could you possibly share some more details considering her ultimate? Because so far it doesn't look to be an good or interesting.