@Morello/Xypherous: Can we get an update on the stealth remake please?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

iBomb

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Happiness View Post
I don't think the phrase "skill scaling" means what you think it means.

Because that's not what they're doing.
They are taking out little tricks and exploits that don't change a whole lot but can be useful.
They are making their game 100000x easier to just pick up and play, yet they are removing any possibility of a skill-gap in their game.

The only real way to determine between good and bad players now is decision making, there is no more mechanical exploits or any sort of mechanic that requires any skill or experience at all.

Perfect example: Bad or new players would never check the enemy team for the oracle buff and would constantly get destroyed if they played a stealth champion. Where as good / experienced players would be constantly checking for the oracle buff. Yet they removed that by just showing everyone instantly if you have oracles or not. Now everyone can play like a pro! Oh but that isn't enough, too many people are *****ing about stealth and not actually playing to counter it. So now EVERYONE gets a free oracles! Yay! No more being able to tell good players from bad ones with who buys vision wards / oracles to counter stealth champions.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Myrmidont

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBomb View Post
They are taking out little tricks and exploits that don't change a whole lot but can be useful.
They are making their game 100000x easier to just pick up and play, yet they are removing any possibility of a skill-gap in their game.

The only real way to determine between good and bad players now is decision making, there is no more mechanical exploits or any sort of mechanic that requires any skill or experience at all.

Perfect example: Bad or new players would never check the enemy team for the oracle buff and would constantly get destroyed if they played a stealth champion. Where as good / experienced players would be constantly checking for the oracle buff. Yet they removed that by just showing everyone instantly if you have oracles or not. Now everyone can play like a pro! Oh but that isn't enough, too many people are *****ing about stealth and not actually playing to counter it. So now EVERYONE gets a free oracles! Yay! No more being able to tell good players from bad ones with who buys vision wards / oracles to counter stealth champions.
how about tying in a niche gimmick into the rest of the game and allowing future champs to have even more diversity with this mechanic, and "invisiblity" perhaps just maybe something skillful can happen if you get your head out of your ass and grow a braincell

less binary reactions to warding and vision too....

this just widens the possibility of having more stealth champs, eve shaco twitch, any other stealth champs? vayne I guess too hmm can't remember any more....sorta piss poor amount for how interesting a mechanic stealth can be right? well now chances are we can have even more stealth champs.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

iBomb

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrmidont View Post
how about tying in a niche gimmick into the rest of the game and allowing future champs to have even more diversity with this mechanic, and "invisiblity" perhaps just maybe something skillful can happen if you get your head out of your ass and grow a braincell

less binary reactions to warding and vision too....

this just widens the possibility of having more stealth champs, eve shaco twitch, any other stealth champs? vayne I guess too hmm can't remember any more....sorta piss poor amount for how interesting a mechanic stealth can be right? well now chances are we can have even more stealth champs.
You could already have all the stealth champions you wanted, oracles and vision wards were a perfectly fine counter to stealth, maybe needed a slight range increase but that is it. Riot just decided that having to actually counter something wasn't 'noob friendly' enough and so they ignored the stealth aspect of the game until they are finally just making it useless now.

Guinsoo came from dota, there are a lot of stealth mechanics in dota, yet no one cries about them one bit..they just counter it. That is extremely surprising since countering stealth in dota is A LOT more costly.

/e; My point of saying guinsoo is originally from dota is so you can realize how dota-ish all his champions are, when compared to other designers.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Frantic Revenant

Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
It will not initially. Only long term stealth abilities will be changed.

The others will probably be reworded as "invisiblity" to distinct the two. Short term tactical stealths are in a much better place currently.

However, items that reveal stealth may be broadened a tad and Oracles may be on the block for being removed, so that will tangentially affect him.
Whatever you do, don't take out my ward hunting potion!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

mogonk

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-13-2011

I can't express how disappointed I am to hear this. The stealth "rework" amounts to removing stealth from the game. Well, I guess the people whining about this finally got their way.

"Nobody can see you...unless they get close enough to see you."

So I'm invisible to minions. Fantastic.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

enforcerupu

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Sounds like you guys are really putting thought in to this, which is great to see. I do however have one suggestion. The biggest problem I've had with stealth is that when Twitch or Ev are in the process of going stealth and they are attacked, they continue to go stealth. Personally, if they are in that process and are hit by an enemy champion, the stealth should reset. The main reason being that if they are in the middle of engaging an enemy and begin to lose, as it is right now, they can simply stealth and there is nothing to do to stop that unless you have a silence or fear ready and not on CD.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

enforcerupu

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBomb View Post
You could already have all the stealth champions you wanted, oracles and vision wards were a perfectly fine counter to stealth, maybe needed a slight range increase but that is it. Riot just decided that having to actually counter something wasn't 'noob friendly' enough and so they ignored the stealth aspect of the game until they are finally just making it useless now.

Guinsoo came from dota, there are a lot of stealth mechanics in dota, yet no one cries about them one bit..they just counter it. That is extremely surprising since countering stealth in dota is A LOT more costly.

/e; My point of saying guinsoo is originally from dota is so you can realize how dota-ish all his champions are, when compared to other designers.
While it may be more costly in DOTA, it's still costly in LoL. Having one or two stealth champs on the opposing team almost automatically puts your team at a monetary disadvantage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CarbunkleFlux

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Between this and the Tryndamake, I am so totally excited for what you guys have coming up the pipeline.

You guys are doing kick ass things in there ^_^.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

iBomb

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by enforcerupu View Post
While it may be more costly in DOTA, it's still costly in LoL. Having one or two stealth champs on the opposing team almost automatically puts your team at a monetary disadvantage.
It also puts you at a power advantage considering stealth champions are all out-shined in almost every aspect by non-stealth champions. They requires A TON of snowballing to do good, and are all but basically useless by the time late game rolls around.

You don't lose money in league for dying.
You have 2 possible get out of jail free cards.
Countering stealth is decidedly LESS costly than in DotA.

Yet I never once in all my years of playing dota saw as much complaining about stealth as I see in 1 day on the league forums.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SharkbaitBruhaha

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-13-2011

Still gonna use my bans to get rid of stealth champs cause I hate them!!!!