To Those Who Punish for Swearing

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HaelRyth

Senior Member

07-11-2011

Quote:
There is no NEED to curse someone out and throw a wild tantrum, it's not going to HELP anything, at the most it's going to really upset teammates and either cause a lack of co-ordination or you getting reported and possibly banned.
Quote:
I'm sorry, but I passionately disagree with anyone that things ignore/filter/getting over it solves the problem - because the problem are the people who broke the rules they agreed to and decided to **** all over another players game-time just to feel better about themselves.
Did you curse there? Oh wait, I don't know. Filter working as intended. Should you be reported because my mind turned that into a curse? Especially since it was in a bolded statement stating high passion and emotion? Careful now, don't cut yourself on the razor's edge you're walking.


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Kaedan

Senior Member

07-11-2011

1. Filter does not stop people from Verbally abusing others maliciously.

2. /ignore is not an answer, due to the fact that communication is necessary for a team game.

3. People who are arguing against "swearing" need to take a step back and analyze the situation. Is it harmless swearing? Or is it malicious comments meant to abuse others?

I very much agree that no one should be banned for swearing just for swearing alone. It's childish to give arbitrary words that much power. However, I do believe that a lot of the posters here do not know the difference between swearing, "playful ribbing" as Riot puts it, and malicious verbal abuse.


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i aM EviL

Member

07-11-2011

Ok, just to reiterate what i said in another thread, this is taken from the tribunal guidelines:

2. Caveat Lector (reader beware)
The Chat Log may contain some colorful language. Try to distinguish between offensive speech and playful ribbing when reaching a verdict.

What does this mean? It means profanity by itself is not punish worthy. It is offensive speech that is punish worthy!

What does that mean?!?!! It means that the filter, which only blocks out profanity and not offensive speech is insufficient. It also means that all the trolls who say people insists on punishing for JUST profanity and "chat filter solves all problems" are plain wrong.


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KamaitachiTrey

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Huntsman

07-11-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaelRyth View Post
Did you curse there? Oh wait, I don't know. Filter working as intended. Should you be reported because my mind turned that into a curse? Especially since it was in a bolded statement stating high passion and emotion? Careful now, don't cut yourself on the razor's edge you're walking.
Hahaha, Hael, actually, I censor myself. I use asterisks each time I intend on "bleeping" my sailors cursing out.

So actually, no - I didn't curse, I self-censored, the same was I do in game. ;D Razor's edge?! Not so much any more, eh? Especially when I don't need the censor to censor me in the first place!

-Trey


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HaelRyth

Senior Member

07-11-2011

Ahhh But you help me prove my point with that. Whether self censored, or filtered, the curse wasn't seen! The filter prevents such offensive language. Although, at this point, I've rattled off the pertinent stuff and am continuing for the sake of the discussion. We really have beaten the filter to death. It works to prevent folks seeing a vast majority of "words". The stuff that is obviously intended to be offensive (anti-semitism, using non-curse words in a manner that blatantly puts down another player, etc) That is what should be reported. The splitting hairs of, "OMG! You cursed at me! I'm reporting you!" Those are the ones that drive me batty when looking through my reports.


As for ignore... Its a double edged sword, I admit. It kills the team comms for that game but you'll never have to deal with them again. And if they really are bad (offensive that is) and the chat backs it up, do both. Ignore and report.


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MeatBags

Senior Member

07-11-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by WerewolfTrey View Post
Hahaha, Hael, actually, I censor myself. I use asterisks each time I intend on "bleeping" my sailors cursing out.

So actually, no - I didn't curse, I self-censored, the same was I do in game. ;D Razor's edge?! Not so much any more, eh? Especially when I don't need the censor to censor me in the first place!

-Trey
If the output is the same between your self censoring and the electronic censor, what's the difference? They should obviously both be bannable offenses since the language was intended to be offensive either way. I fail to see the difference. Too bad you have your head so far up your *** you cant see the ******** light.

Did I self censor or not? Exactly.

Edit: Not truly directed at you. Just proving a point.


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LadyLothiriel

Senior Member

07-11-2011

I can't understand how people still believe that the Tribunal punishes people for swearing and why those who point out that it depends at whom those swear words are directed just keep getting ignored.

1. I would never punish someone who used what Riot so circumspectly describes as "colorful language" when it's clearly not meant to harrass or insult.

2. If, however, it is directed at another player, if this is done repeatedly and with increasing uglyness, then yes, it's punishable and I don't even care all that much what sort of language is used. I can say: "You my friend, are an extremly unskilled player with no apparent experience and I fervently hope never to meet you in another game again, because your mental capacity is clearly in no way sufficient to play this or any other game", or I can be less long-winded and more colorful and still: it's an insult and it's against the code and therefore punishable.

3. Telling people to turn on the language filter and to /ignore the offender is a litte like advising people to wear bulletproof vests. Yes, I probably would avoid getting murdered. That still makes it no less of an offense to shoot at me. So Riot tries to stop the guys waving the guns instead of supplying bulletproof vests to all players. Sounds intelligent to me.

ETA that I do hope that it is undestood that I don't compare getting insulted with getting shot. I merely wanted to illustrate the question of who is to blame for what.


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KamaitachiTrey

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Huntsman

07-11-2011

I understand where you are coming from, but the problem with this whole argument about censoring, filtering, ignoring, or self-censoring is that there are ways around it and the vast majority of the time those are the people I punish.

There's a key difference - when I self-censor, the only plausible outcome is that there is a bunch of asterisks in the middle of one of my sentences.

When I blatantly curse, there are any number of things that may end up occurring that defeats the filter.

Let's be honest, people that generally throw out wild insults at another player don't take the time to backspace to make sure the word **** is spelled correctly so that it is filtered out.

My point here still remains - if Riot are the ones who punish people that swear, and they set up the rules and allow us to play their game, and they have made it obvious time and again that they don't like it (and will ban) when people maliciously seek to spoil anothers experiences (whether with AFK, Intentional Feeding, or Hate Remarks) then I'm sorry, but I've always gotta follow their rules so insure continued play of their game.

That's just how it goes. Just like if they said from day one they would only ever have 10 champions, sorry, but those are their rules and that's what they intend to do. I can kick and scream, but there will still only be 10 champions. Same thing applies here, they've said they'll ban you for verbally assaulting someone, and we've just got to abide by it because that's what they're doing.

-Trey
P.S. +1 to the Lady above me for making points that I completely and utterly agree with - especially points 1, 2, and 3.


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PKRaptor

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Junior Member

07-11-2011

The arguments are becoming redundant.

Verbal assault and colorful language are different things, and the filter -HELPS- mitigate the former while generally nullifying the latter. Being punished for simple swearing is asinine; being punished for obscenities directed at another player in an offensive and derogatory manner IS something that needs to be addressed.

Yes, it's subjective. There have been times when I've called "**** you, Ashe! Nice arrow. =D" In no way do I intend insult or offense, and to date I doubt I've ever been reported for such a comment. If I embarked on a string of expletives without any hint of joking/kidding/ribbing directed towards that player, there's a very different issue-- filter or no.

The filter does it's job, the community and Riot enforce the rules via the report and Tribunal systems. It is Riot's game, and they enforce their rules as they see fit. They are not obliged to give service, they are merely obliged not to deny service based on ethnicity, gender, race, or religious belief. However, they have every right to deny access based on abuse of their rules and guidelines.

That is /my/ opinion and one supported by the EULA as a whole. Don't be trying to quote loopholes, because those are not what is being enforced. Get hired by Riot, take over the Tribunal, and then your interpretation matters-- they can and will ban regardless of how right a player believes they are.

It is subjective, but so is the interpretation and subsequent punishment (if any). Therefore it is up to the community (and Riot) to determine how severe the infraction is, and if it warrants addressing.


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Jozrael

QA Analyst

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07-11-2011
1 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by WerewolfTrey View Post
If we are to believe Riot (which we should, otherwise why are we playing a game from a company that blatantly lies to us - and I've read Jozrael's posts, they're always pretty freakin' accurate) then that means the Tribunal is still checked by a Riot Employee each time - especially when it comes to dishing out punishment.
I believe since that post things have changed (I've seen a few posts by Zileas talking about tweaking which posts are vetted or not). The end goal of the Tribunal is to give you guys a greater degree of control over it - we just wanted to ensure it was working properly and as expected before handing over a bit more of the reins.

Do rest assured that we are still monitoring it and that we'll continue to monitor more serious punishments - warnings and the like MAY not be individually vetted by this point (although I'm sure we'll continue to spot-check!).