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-   -   [Guide] Veigar - How to bring the pain (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=874374)

banthor11 06-21-2011 06:07 PM

[Guide] Veigar - How to bring the pain
 
There hasn't been a lot of up-to-date Veigar guides lately, a free Veigar week, and a lot of "Veigar is UP, buff him!" threads lately so I figured I would throw in my lot and take a crack at it.

Things you need to know about Veigar:

Weaknesses:

Low base stats

Weak, easily disrupted early game

2 Skillshots: one often necessary to land the other.

High mana costs. Especially when comboing.

Strengths:

AP from farming minions with Q, and from champion kills

Ridiculous burst combo. So much that it overwhelms supports, and sometimes even tanks.

High scaling with AP. See above 1:1 ratio and an Ult that scales on both your AP and the targets AP.

A non-ultimate aoe// wall Stun. Yes, it won't always hit what it needs to but is excellent at disrupting team fights, protecting team mates and setting up kills.


Now, onto the spells.


Baleful Strike - Unleashes dark energy at target enemy, dealing magic damage. If a unit is killed, Veigar gains some ability power permanently. Active: Unleashes dark energy at target enemy, dealing 80/125/170/215/260 (+0.6) magic damage. If the target is killed, Veigar gains 1 ability power.

Passive: Veigar gains 1/2/3/4/5 ability power when he kills a champion from any source of damage.

The defining characteristic of Veigar, aside from the champion obliterating combo. The ratio on this isn't the best and passive isn't good until veigar hits his mid game where he can actually score kills with consistency and with high ranks in baleful. You will want 2 ranks of this maximum early game (explained later).


Dark Matter (DM) - Veigar calls a great mass of dark matter to fall from the sky to the target location, dealing magic damage when it lands. After 1.2 seconds, dark matter falls from the sky to the target location, dealing 120/170/220/270/320 (+1) magic damage.

This is part of your Bread-and-Butter spell combo. Amazing for harass when used with EH and great for difficult to harass farm, with its excellent range.

Learn the timing and learn to love that sweet, sweet base damage and 1:1 AP ratio.

Event Horizon (EH) - Veigar twists the edges of space around the target location for 3 seconds, stunning enemies who pass through the perimeter for a short duration. Veigar twists the edges of space around the target location for 3 seconds, stunning enemies who pass through the perimeter for 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 seconds.

Amazing initiator, disruptor, gank tool, and defensive wall. This thing starts out awesome and only become more amazing as you rank it up. Nothing forces someone to panic and flash than an EH. Learn how to place this so it automatically stuns.

Primordial Burst (PB) - Blasts target enemy champion, dealing a large base amount of magic damage plus 80% of his target's AP. Blasts an enemy champion, dealing 250/375/500 (+1.2) plus 80% of his target's AP in magic damage.

Now we're talking! 1.2:1 AP ratio + 0.8:1 AP ratio based on the targets AP, this thing will make mages regret ever letting you get in range of them. Starting out this isn't the best Ultimate ever because there won't be enough AP floating around on both you and your opponents to make it do much more than the base damage.
Still, an excellent coup-de-grace and when you reach AP critical mass with your item build it become beastly.

Equilibrium
- Veigar's mana regen is increased by 0.75% for each 1% of mana missing.

Easily underestimated passive. This is starting out with the better part of a Chalice of Harmony. This is also the reason I run MP/5 seals and glyphs over scaling AP, as it completely negates the need to build an Archangel's Staff, even with those high mana costs.

Also with enough MP/5 at the start, this means you can ALWAYS Baleful strike so long as your aren't wasting them.
Now about runes, masteries, summoner spells.

Masteries:

9/0/21, standard caster.

Pick up whatever you need that goes with your corresponding summoner spells.

Runes:


Mp/5
AP and AP/level runes
Health Quints are always good.
Magic penetration

Use these however you see fit. I personally prefer going all Mp/5 seals and glyphs to make Archangels obsolete in the item build, but AP always has its merits.

Summoner Spells:
Okay this really reflects play style.

The big ones:

Ghost - Always good for offense and defense.

Flash - Not necessary, but an amazing defense tool, and allows Veigar to come down on someone's head with a full combo from a bush or distance they were not expecting.

Teleport: Great for backing since your easily harassed. Puts you where you need to be when your team needs you. Helps set up surprise ganks and stops pushes. Excellent pick if you have a team that can keep melee's off you.

Others with some merit:

Exhaust: More damage, slows, and greatly weakens the damage capability of melee's getting in your face. Not a bad pick.

Ignite: Shuts down healing, true damage. Also, it gives AP if the ignite kills the target.

Do not get:

Clarity: You shouldn't be having mana problems. You have a caster page and mana regen passive.

Clairvoyance: Always good to have one on a team, but Veigar really needs good mobility, offense and defense tools. Better suited to the support on the team.

Rally: No, just... no. There's a lot wrong with this spell and I hope Riot cleans it up at some point.

Heal: Interesting, but Veigar isn't going to do the surprising retaliation damage needed to turn around a team fight in the early game. Late game this become very lackluster.


Spell order:

This is more flexible then most people give it credit for.

Pick Q first then E unless your team want's to commit to a level 1 jungle gank, then pick E first but let the point float until your sure a gank is going to happen near you. At which point go for Q next.

After that there's 2 paths you can take.

#1
Cautious and safe:


R> Q >W >E

A lot of Veigar go this route in order to push down the CD and get as much AP as they can early and get in some harass. It works but personally I hate it (post Locket removal), Q isn't great and has the worst ratio of Veigar spells.

Instead I opt for a second route.

#2
Riskier but more rewarding damage


Get Q to rank 2 (or rank 1 if you're comfortable with it). Then:

R > W > Q > E

This build assumes you can land DM effectively and often (more on that later). Its important to note that if the enemy team is getting Mercury Treads early you may want to pick up another rank in E if necessary.

Maxing W early lets you farm, push and harass from a more comfortable range. Remember to still Q farm for AP when the opportunity arises. This build requires a delicate balance of quickly farming gold versus building up your AP.

Item builds:

There are various builds here, I'll put forth a few opening builds and suggested items.

mana crystal//meki pendant + hp pots >> Tear of the goddess + boots

The idea here is to build up a mana pool for comboing, then build survival and AP. Very glass cannon, can get a lot of AP, personally feel there are better routes.

meki pendante + hp pots>> boots, fiendish codex// kage's pick >> deathfire >> AP / survival

Veigar uses everything on Deathfire grasp. Cd reduction, AP, more MP/5 make this a nice package. The real kicker is the Active which fits perfectly into Veigar's Kill combo and make him a force to be reckoned with (more on this later).

Mana crystal + hp pots >> boots catalyst>> AP/ survival

This is a good opening and one I use. The survivability and sustain catalyst grants is crucial to Veigar's early and mid game. This can later be built into Banshee's which is great since you will be going after casters a lot and CC will ruin Veigar quickly. Building into ROA is also suitable.

AP/ Survival
Picking up a Needlessly Large rod some time after catalyst, along with Sorc boots, and kage's lucky pick is a good start, but you can go after Deathfire, Rabadon's, Banshee's// ROA as you see fit.


Must-have AP Items:

Deathfire's Grasp: This gives you everything you want and the active lets you belt out tremendous amounts of damage.

Rabadon's Deathcap: Huge AP gain and Boost the AP you got from Baleful farming

Void staff: Turns Big damage into Bigger damage and makes even tanks cry when you full combo them.

Other good AP items:

Will of the Ancients: Useful if there are other casters, and the heal gives excellent sustain.

Rylai's : Slow, HP, AP, all around good, even better if you want to build as a tough caster.

Defense/ Survivability:

Banshee's : Always good

Abyssal Scepter: Good AP, good MR, boosts damage further and for teammates. Its even better with Banshee's versus magic heavy teams.

Zhonya's Hourglass: Strong AP, good armor, Anti focus active. This can throw a wrench into opposing team's focusing you and buys time for cooldowns. Excellent item.

Glacial Shroud>> Frozen heart: This is mostly good because with Deathfire your Cd's become maxed out, debuffs the opposing team and gives you extremely high armor. Very good, but probably not relevant until late game.


Tips and THE combo:

There are various iterations of the Veigar combo and this is the main one:

E >W > Deathfire's Grasp > R> Q

This will absolutely blow carries, supports and casters out of fights. Learn to do it quickly, the quicker the less of a chance they can flash out.

Good Veigar's can do this combo, the best Veigar's can open with:

W> E >Deathfire's Grasp > R> Q
W>Deathfire's Grasp >E > R> Q
Deathfire > W > E > R > Q

These combo give them less time to respond if you can snag them with the E under the Dark matter, and are one of the few ways you'll snag slippery characters like Gangplank or cleanse users.

Tips:

- You have low early damage, play like a support. You will get pushed around until Dark matter starts getting ranked up. Then start harass with E and W when you can. You probably shouldn't be 1v2ing and be careful of some champions in 1v1.

-Versus Flash users, bait their flash with E>W and W > E. Normally nobody will risk the chance of the full combo coming down on their heads. They'll be down a flash, and you'll still have your spells available for an actual kill attempt with them at (hopefully) less HP.

-Learn when to Farm Q, and when to farm with W.

-Lead minion waves with W to prevent tower pushes

-Use event horizon to disrupt, save buddies,and help them get kills.. You have a wall that stuns, its nice to get kills, but the utility is there so use it to its fullest potential and hold back mana for it.

-Use Q and W to pop Banshee's (lead with Q if your plan to full combo). You should not ever be dropping Event Horizon on someone that has the Bubble up.

-Try not to build glass cannon. Dashes and blinks are rough on you, expect champions with them to come for you. Veigar is one of a few mages that can get 2 tanky items and still dish out the damage. Veigar is all about overkill damage already, putting someone a few hundred more into the negatives is not worth dying right after.



Well, that's it for now. I'll see about updating when I can.

ChrisH 06-21-2011 08:41 PM

Great read, I recently picked up Veigar again for the first time since they reworked him and have come to many of the same conclusions as you.

IHunter 06-21-2011 08:56 PM

You forgot his Q ability in the spell description :/

banthor11 06-21-2011 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHunter (Hozzászólás 10299219)
You forgot his Q ability in the spell description :/


Thanks, must have fumbled the copy paste on that one. Edited in.

banthor11 06-22-2011 03:37 PM

Fixed some stuff and updated.

Kromara 07-26-2011 09:50 AM

Great build. I've been playing Veigar for about 5 months now and I've managed to figure most of these things out on my own, but the other things I missed were great to figure out. I always enjoy learning new things about my favorite little yordle.

banthor11 07-26-2011 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromara (Hozzászólás 12016606)
Great build. I've been playing Veigar for about 5 months now and I've managed to figure most of these things out on my own, but the other things I missed were great to figure out. I always enjoy learning new things about my favorite little yordle.

Always nice to know I helped someone out.

Nikuradse 08-15-2011 08:34 PM

Great, very thoughtful guide.

Flawliss 08-15-2011 09:30 PM

I main him and I play veigar a little more aggressive, I do Mpen marks, mp5 seals and flat AP Glyphs and quints, I grab clarity and flash, clarity allows me to abuse my abilitys hard, I dont have to go b as much, and flash for obvious reasons, and after I get sorc boots I rush deathcap, Im usually always mid and I can zone out anyone, even mid champs with heals...your build is nice though, I prefer my style ;)

Pigdestroyah 08-15-2011 09:37 PM

Lovely guide.
Perhaps add a laning section, which lanes you choose in different situations, tactics against common mid picks etc.
+1


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